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Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

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Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#21

Post by maxerickson »

jahnu wrote: post #13

> There is no unused arable land on a planet that’s already struggling to support a human population that cleared 8 billion last month The amount of this land that is dedicated to growing food for livestock and the livestock themselves is simply astounding. Reducing meat consumption is a much simpler solution and I believe the one that will win out anyway. Complicated solar systems like this will only become relevant…

Even with it taking up much more space than a lot of other power sources, the amount of solar needed to run the world will take up a relatively modest amount of space.

Tens of thousands of square miles is a lot, but it's pretty manageable if the discussion is optimizing global land use.

Also, "unused arable land" is probably true, but there's likely more than 0 land that could be converted to agriculture from some other use.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#22

Post by maxerickson »

moloch-hai wrote: post #7

This article promotes false assumptions. Ordinary solar can work fine in fields, because most plants don't use light beyond a few hours' worth, and endure the heat, after. A practical arrangement is bifacial panels in vertical fencerows running north-south, to pick up morning and afternoon sun, spaced widely enough for equipment to run between. Blocking morning sun preserves dew, and blocking afternoon cuts heat stre…

I wonder how often interspersing the panels with crops ends up being better than packing the panels onto the most marginal portion of the land parcel. There's often ridges or whatever to deal with on a field.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#23

Post by sveme »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #20
tuatoru wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pareto principle applies. Most of the problem is caused by the top billion people ordered by income. If you have a tailor, that's you.

No. Unless you're happy to keep billions in abject poverty (and that does not ecen protect the environment) the aim is to have all humans on this planet live a good life in good conditions. Therefore it's not "us vs them" it's all of us together and the root cause is indeed the overall number.

If the top 1% would reduce their lifestyle to that of the next 10%, a lot would be gained right away. Private jets are evil.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#25

Post by westurner »

moloch-hai wrote: post #7

This article promotes false assumptions. Ordinary solar can work fine in fields, because most plants don't use light beyond a few hours' worth, and endure the heat, after. A practical arrangement is bifacial panels in vertical fencerows running north-south, to pick up morning and afternoon sun, spaced widely enough for equipment to run between. Blocking morning sun preserves dew, and blocking afternoon cuts heat stre…

FWIU, also sheep can graze under the shade of solar panels, thus eliminating the need to robo-mow beneath solar panels.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#26

Post by MagicMoonlight »

Anything that involves constructing precarious fragile structures over large areas of land is not a practical solution.

Imagine wanting to harvest your crops and you can’t use any machinery because of all the structures. Or imagine there is a slight wind and it rips up 200k in solar panels.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#27

Post by automatic6131 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #15
jahnu wrote: post #13

> There is no unused arable land on a planet that’s already struggling to support a human population that cleared 8 billion last month The amount of this land that is dedicated to growing food for livestock and the livestock themselves is simply astounding. Reducing meat consumption is a much simpler solution and I believe the one that will win out anyway. Complicated solar systems like this will only become relevant…

The root cause of the problem was plainly mentioned: 8 billion people and counting. Solutions to problems ought to address root causes.

>Solutions to problems ought to address root causes.

Oh really? Please lead by example.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#28

Post by natelegler »

Here is my take as someone that is involved in farming in the Midwest. Both row crops and livestock:

Taking out productive land to put in a solar farm is not practical. There are loads of acres that would be a perfect fit such as pasture land no longer being utilized for grazing. Or if there is pasture being used for grazing with sheep/goats would be another good place for these to be placed.

Another suggestion would be utilizing the roofs of hog confinement buildings, poultry buildings, cattle sheds, machine sheds, etc. This also pertains to roofs in urban areas as well. I actually helped with a business putting up a new chemical shed to place solar panels on their roof. There are so many hog sites and poultry sites in my area that this would be a no brainer to try and push towards. Everyone saying eliminate or reduce meat consumption...all it is is a wish and prayer. It won't happen sorry that's just the cold hard truth so the above suggestion is what the world needs in a lot of situations...a compromise.

The next suggestion is some sort of portable solar paneling during the non-growing season. Pull them out of the crop and field work has been done, and remove them before the next season begins.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#29

Post by jahnu »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #15
jahnu wrote: post #13

> There is no unused arable land on a planet that’s already struggling to support a human population that cleared 8 billion last month The amount of this land that is dedicated to growing food for livestock and the livestock themselves is simply astounding. Reducing meat consumption is a much simpler solution and I believe the one that will win out anyway. Complicated solar systems like this will only become relevant…

The root cause of the problem was plainly mentioned: 8 billion people and counting. Solutions to problems ought to address root causes.

There are barely more children in the world today than twenty years ago. Increases in population are down to not dying young. In almost all regions of the world people are having fewer children and trending towards lower than replacement levels as the necessity to having enough children that survive to adulthood and can care for you in old age disappears. These are hard facts. Given these facts the suggestion that we tackle the “population problem” implies all sorts of horrible utterly unethical “solutions”.

The “population problem” is a solved problem (not ignoring ongoing efforts and regional as opposed to global problems such as Madagascar population/land use issues which are largely political anyway) and there is nothing left there that we can do to solve the global environmental ecological degradation.

Re: Solar panels open crop lands to farming energy

#30

Post by nootropicat »

sveme wrote: post #23
mytailorisrich wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Unless you're happy to keep billions in abject poverty (and that does not ecen protect the environment) the aim is to have all humans on this planet live a good life in good conditions. Therefore it's not "us vs them" it's all of us together and the root cause is indeed the overall number.

If the top 1% would reduce their lifestyle to that of the next 10%, a lot would be gained right away. Private jets are evil.

You're thinking of the upper 0.01%. Global upper 1% starts at about $1M nw. Private jets are only really affordable at 9 figures.
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