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Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

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Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#131

Post by StillBored »

m-p-3 wrote: post #122
idiocrat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what is the rational of removing features like allow for customization.

Technical debt, requiring someone to maintain it.

But then they notice they cant build a dark mode and end up reinventing it all poorly. I've come to the conclusion that 99% of the time "technical debt" particularly in old stable code that hasn't been touched in years is translation for "Its complex and I don't understand it". Particularly when asked to add what seems like a trivial feature.

SOS as always, the new guy knows better than the old one, but by time time all the edge cases get reimplmented it consumes 100x the ram and runs 1/10 as fast and is just as unmaintainable, if not worse because now its written with 20 layers of OO or functional abstractions in some interpreted language that is a giant mess. Which is why when the next new guy joins its all "garbage code".

Sometimes KISS is best, and it should generally be a requirement that before your allowed to throw the code away you have to refactor it a couple of times.

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#132

Post by StillBored »

nix23 wrote: post #45
Koshkin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That was the best version Microsoft ever made No. 7 was a rollback on Vista. The best one which was not a step back but rather a step forward was Windows 2000. (Some even swear by NT4, which I feel also has some merit.)

I think WindowsServer2003R2 was the best OS Microsoft ever made, then XP >SP2 and Windows2000, then Win7.

Yes 2003 64-bit was the first official 64-bit x86 windows and is probably the largest advance over 2000, and there really hasn't been anything since that is as large a technical capability addition.

I'm on the fence, but frequently say that 2000 was probably the best. Then I have to qualify that maybe the preview 64-bit XP or full win2003 might be first or in the running because 64-bit is such a major/critical feature to modern computer that if you wanted to sell a modern "Windows for business" release you would have to pick one of the 64-bit versions rather than rolling back to 2k.

I too ran 2k3 (64-bit of course on my athlon64) for a while as a desktop and technically it was fantastic, but eventually ended up switching back to XP with a few hacks to just avoid the general issue that a number of pieces of desktop software refused to run on a "server OS" without buying the server license for $$$$.

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#133

Post by StillBored »

RobotToaster wrote: post #68
slt2021 wrote: post #8

For the love of god just get off of thece ancient systems pls, or run the only in airgapped and isolated network segments with application whitelisting and manual data ingress/egress controls, and everything will be fine without these silly updates. Just bury the body already, let winxp rest in peace, please

Doesn't MS still offer paid updates for win7?

yah for another month. The official paid support is "Extended Security Updates (ESU) through January 2023"

But, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a couple large (or important) customers with some special cases have some kind of incident support contracts which basically dictate that MS fixes exploits or bugs in embedded systems/whatever. Its happened in the past, so no reason to think that some nuke plant tied to windows7 can't get a timezone update or whatever in a couple years after paying $$$$$ for it.

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#134

Post by running0nMT »

Animats wrote: post #34

I could see staying with Windows 7. That was the best version Microsoft ever made. Microsoft finally figured out how to make it stable, and it didn't have all the ad and cloud crap nailed in. You can run current Firefox, current Thunderbird, and current LibreOffice, which covers the basics. Most Windows software still works.

Thunderbird!

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#135

Post by matheusmoreira »

causality0 wrote: post #10
slt2021 wrote: post #8

For the love of god just get off of thece ancient systems pls, or run the only in airgapped and isolated network segments with application whitelisting and manual data ingress/egress controls, and everything will be fine without these silly updates. Just bury the body already, let winxp rest in peace, please

Give me a new Windows that isn't dripping with contempt for the user.

Microsoft Linux doesn't exist yet, they just have a cheap imitation running on top of Windows. I recommend switching to the real thing.

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#136

Post by acquacow »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #135
causality0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a new Windows that isn't dripping with contempt for the user.

Microsoft Linux doesn't exist yet, they just have a cheap imitation running on top of Windows. I recommend switching to the real thing.

Well, it's ubuntu in a Hyper-V VM. It's a very real linux, and it runs /in/ windows vs on top of it...

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#137

Post by p-e-w »

Microsoft was wise to fear open source. If Windows XP had been free software, the vast majority of institutions would have just kept using it and Microsoft's future OS sales would have plummeted, along with all the ad and user data revenue that they indirectly generate.

Instead, being closed source, Microsoft can just force users to update to systems that they don't want, by withholding critical security fixes and features that are required to use the modern web. And there's almost nothing the users can do about it, because they have no meaningful control over the system they are running.

It's pure genius.

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#138

Post by dangus »

Animats wrote: post #34

I could see staying with Windows 7. That was the best version Microsoft ever made. Microsoft finally figured out how to make it stable, and it didn't have all the ad and cloud crap nailed in. You can run current Firefox, current Thunderbird, and current LibreOffice, which covers the basics. Most Windows software still works.

Groan, the luddite mentality about Windows is and has always been out of control, with so many people insisting on living on decade-old software for silly pedantic reasons like "cloud crap" that can be turned off in 5 seconds. Don't move my cheese, nothing else can possibly be better, Windows peaked 10 years ago.

No, my Windows 11 system doesn't use a Microsoft Account. No, I don't get ads on Windows (web search and suggestions are off, e.g., turn Windows Search settings to "classic"). All of the annoying stuff takes very little time to disable. And let's not pretend that Windows 7 didn't have people looking to turn off things about it they found annoying. [1]

Don't forget that the system requirements for Windows actually decreased after 7 when Microsoft optimized it for lower spec devices. Windows 7 isn't actually all that well optimized compared to 8/8.1/10/11. Windows 10 and 11 are much better able to take advantage of hardware enhancements on modern chips that are vastly different than the hardware available over 10 years ago. How many x86 processors had big.LITTLE architecture in 2009? Because that's what Intel is shipping now.

Don't forget about all the things that are massively antiquated about Windows 7 like the legacy control panel with no search function, lack of multiple desktops, lack of basic built-ins like a PDF reader, garbage command prompt and powershell, troubleshooting wizard that did nothing, Windows Update still being relatively disruptive and unreliable.

Don't forget about all the things that are actually REALLY good about Windows 11 like the game bar, task manager, Linux tooling and aliases (can you run ls ~/ | grep example in a Windows 7 shell without additional software?)/PowerShell 7/SSH being preinstalled, expanded and improved window management, very clean and minimal visual design, Windows Hello biometrics (I can SSH to my Linux server with a key stored in 1Password, automatically authenticated with my fingerprint when I run the SSH command (I don't have to open 1Password manually), using the built-in Windows SSH client, can Windows 7 do that??)

Windows 7 looked good because Vista was so unfinished and inappropriately matched to the contemporary hardware of the time, but in reality it wasn't anything particularly special and had plenty of missing and frustrating aspects.

[1] https://www.maketecheasier.com/disable-annoying-things-in-wi...

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#139

Post by ihatepython »

mrighele wrote: post #70
ahartmetz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, 2000 was by far my favorite Windows. Very solid, very clean style. I have a burning hatred for the visual design of Windows 7 (and Vista to a lesser degree) - it may have been technically great, but the design felt appropriate for a toothpaste, not for an operating system. I could only stand XP with the 2000 style as well. What the hell were they thinking?

I consider Windows 2000 the top that Microsoft reached with regard to style (both look and feel). But you can choose "Windows Classic" as a style in Windows 7 and it will not to be too different, although some thing may be annoying. For example, Windows 2000 was more keyboard-friendly. In Explorer, you edit the path on the top input, then you tab and you move between files. Since Windows XP that has been increasing,…

For me, peak Windows in terms of style was Windows 3.1 with the Hotdog Stand theme.

But Windows 2000 was solid as well

Re: Legacy Update: Fix Windows Update on Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008, 2003, 2000

#140

Post by matheusmoreira »

acquacow wrote: post #136
matheusmoreira wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft Linux doesn't exist yet, they just have a cheap imitation running on top of Windows. I recommend switching to the real thing.

Well, it's ubuntu in a Hyper-V VM. It's a very real linux, and it runs /in/ windows vs on top of it...

Wasn't it an implementation of Linux system calls on top of NT?
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