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Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

latimes.com

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Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#81

Post by AgentOrange1234 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #38
insane_dreamer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Irrigation of cattle feed crops is the single largest consumptive user ... 55 percent in the Colorado River basin. That's a pretty shocking statistic. Seems like the most logical place to cut despite impact on dairy/cattle production.

You know there is all kinds of talk about civil war over politics like guns, or abortion, etc. The one thing that will cause a civil war is if you take away American's access to beef. Good luck trying to do that

Reducing production in one region that can’t sustain it is not “taking away” our (unprecedented) access to beef.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#82

Post by rufus_foreman »

grogenaut wrote: post #72
rufus_foreman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean That's interesting, I had no idea.

best intent assumption that they meant "of the states having water shortages in the southwest". The other 2 on the coast are OR and WA and they are not dependent on the colorado for water, they have their own massive river.

Thanks for the clarification, I honestly didn't know what they were asserting.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#83

Post by burritas »

leoh wrote: post #50
ancorevard wrote: post #28

What water infrastructure has California invested in the last decade? As far as I can tell, all that CA Gov has done is to prohibit any desalination plants from getting built.

Yeah, it's not a good look, especially since California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean. Not only that, renewables like solar are perfect for desalination as you don't really need one of these systems to be running around the clock.

The big showstopper is what to do with the hypersalinated byproduct. You'd kill anything that was near where it's let out. It's also very corrosive and I imagine the would be a problem moving it far from the plant.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#84

Post by ceejayoz »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #63
leoh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not a good look, especially since California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean. Not only that, renewables like solar are perfect for desalination as you don't really need one of these systems to be running around the clock.

>> California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean That's interesting, I had no idea.

It's the only state in the Colorado River Compact adjacent to the ocean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_Compact

Places like Hawaii and Florida are, for obvious reasons, not relevant to the Colorado River.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#85

Post by lazide »

AgentOrange1234 wrote: post #80
lazide wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current setup is strongly based on historic water rights laws. Touching that would be opening a giant Pandora’s box few legislators want to handle. And with how broken Congress is in general, do ANY of the states involved think that would produce a better outcome?

Yes of course congress is a mess and intervention will have major consequences, but the alternative seems to be everyone stands around watching the water dry up.

And hoping this winter will be a wet one. Which, hey maybe.

But nah.

Sounds about right! If the little guy gets screwed too, SNAFU.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#86

Post by sidewndr46 »

lazide wrote: post #79
sidewndr46 wrote: post #60

Aren't there passageways left over from the dam's construction that could be dynamited to restore the normal flow of the river? Given that the reservoir no longer serves a purpose it seems like that would be the most sensible approach at this point.

It has no purpose right now . Next year might be flooding, and then you’d better believe everyone wants it.

Isn't that what Glen Canyon Dam exists for?

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#87

Post by ancapsfascists »

lazide wrote: post #68
ancapsfascists wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy, I've spent a decade reading up on that word. You want to talk Bookchin, Kroptkin, or Öcalan I'm available any time. Respect to my anarchist comrades who are all or nothing, but I recognize the current system we live in, and I'm not going to throw away the useful tools before replacing them.

How do you reconcile being an anarchist with calling for federal rule making interventionism?

Here's an analogy: let's say you work on cars and you've got a decent set of tools. You have a friend who has an excellent set and a whole shop. You can imagine yourself running with your ideal set. But the first step isn't "throw out all your tools and get a $20 Walmart box of assorted tools."

I can imagine a society built on mutual aid, and I practice that everywhere I can. But I have access to tools today. I can vote, I can use my voice to influence the government. What's my alternative, given the reality of today? Convert everyone asking the Colorado river to council communists before the river dries up?

My tool box isn't perfect, but it has some good tools in it. Many of them I'd ideally get rid of and replace, but I'm not going to ignore the tools I have until I replace them with better ones.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#88

Post by hedora »

landemva wrote: post #32
imchillyb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch 2-3 episodes of 'How it's Made' and you can see how much water use is industrial. Add the industrial and cattle together and one can quickly see that it's not humans that are consuming the vast majority of potable water, but companies and industry that are depleting what's available for the rest of us.

Is the chip industry in these metrics? Big Intel plant being built in Ohio on land which had been farms. https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2022/06/30/intel-i... "The average semiconductor fab uses somewhere between 2 million and 4 million gallons of water per day"

That part of Ohio is a drained swamp land, and is projected to get more water due to global warming.

The chip plants being built in the southwest are fed from the Colorado River, and are using scarce water.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#89

Post by lazide »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #86
lazide wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has no purpose right now . Next year might be flooding, and then you’d better believe everyone wants it.

Isn't that what Glen Canyon Dam exists for?

Nope, though it helps.

On a flood year, the Colorado is pretty nuts.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#90

Post by leoqa »

hakfoo wrote: post #49
eikenberry wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also never seen anyone address the high chance that post UBI the #1 issue for every politician will become "I will raise the UBI" and if they don't their opposition will. How will we deal with an ever increasing UBI and where will that every increasing source of money come from?

I think the solution is to both problems is that you "de-dollarize" major parts of the economy. Instead of UBI as a bag of dollars, which landlords and merchants will immediately seek to plunder, you deliver highly-subsidized food, shelter, and rich public services. This is much harder to capture, and also has less of a ratchet factor. Consider, for example, a universal health care component. The interest in more ser…

This is how it works in Cuba. You get a set of coupons each month for food etc
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