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John Carmack Leaves Meta

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Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#251

Post by Mistletoe »

mathgladiator wrote: post #153
Arjuna wrote: post #111

”It has been a struggle for me. I have a voice at the highest levels here, so it feels like I should be able to move things, but I'm evidently not persuasive enough. A good fraction of the things I complain about eventually turn my way after a year or two passes and evidence piles up, but I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it. I…

He isn't alone. A core problem is that FB culture is way too positive and happy, and hard criticism is received poorly. The politics to get anything done if your name isn't Mark is borderline impossible. I left a year ago, and I've become beyond happy.

The Stepford Wives come to mind.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#253

Post by adamsb6 »

mathgladiator wrote: post #153
Arjuna wrote: post #111

”It has been a struggle for me. I have a voice at the highest levels here, so it feels like I should be able to move things, but I'm evidently not persuasive enough. A good fraction of the things I complain about eventually turn my way after a year or two passes and evidence piles up, but I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it. I…

He isn't alone. A core problem is that FB culture is way too positive and happy, and hard criticism is received poorly. The politics to get anything done if your name isn't Mark is borderline impossible. I left a year ago, and I've become beyond happy.

I joined back in 2014 and left this year.

I feel like I got to enjoy a couple of years before the company started to lose its nimbleness. Feedback groups used to get responses from the people that actually built the things instead of contractors whose primary function is feedback group triage. Sometimes you could actually have an impact by giving feedback, and you could see others having those impacts as well.

When I left, it seemed like whatever wasn't planned for upfront at the planning meetings for each half just won't happen. Around 2018 I came to a team with a small feature request that I was happy to take on myself as long as they'd provide code review. I was told if I'd come to them a month ago they might've been able to do it, but now I'd need to wait until planning for the next half.

I think Portal is a perfect example of how slow to adapt the company has become. It's a fantastic video conferencing device, certainly the best at its price point. We happened to enter the pandemic with this device already available for sale, but we completely failed to capitalize on it. Zoom become the dominant video conferencing service pretty quickly. We failed to roll out Zoom support until October of 2020, when everyone had already established their video conferencing routines and were less likely to see the benefit of a dedicated device.

Portal ended up failing so hard as a consumer product that it got transferred over to the Workplace division.

I'd argued internally that at the very least we should allow sideloading of apps. Portal is just Android. People could run their videoconferencing application of choice, as well as any other apps. That would make the Portal more competitive versus an Android tablet, which all have okay videoconferencing as well as the whole world of Android apps.

The Portal camera is fisheye so we'd need to modify Android to let regular apps pull a normal image using the Android camera APIs, but that's totally doable.

In the distant past these kinds of requests would've at least gotten engagement from people working on the product. In 2020, they got a chipper response from a contractor who I guess filed them in a feature requests tool where they went to die. Oh, the contractor also would provide directions on how to use the web browser in lieu of apps. Like the first iPhone.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#254

Post by dcow »

Arjuna wrote: post #111

”It has been a struggle for me. I have a voice at the highest levels here, so it feels like I should be able to move things, but I'm evidently not persuasive enough. A good fraction of the things I complain about eventually turn my way after a year or two passes and evidence piles up, but I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it. I…

I have a genuine question about what to do when one finds oneself in this type of position and one is surrounded by people who seemingly do give a damn (and one isn't compelled to just give up and leave).

In my experience, the software industry, in it’s aggressive desire to be egalitarian, has an authority problem. I have encountered the “I told you so one year ago but we just had to learn the hard way didn't we” situation more times than it seems efficient. I am not unaware that I may be selectively remembering things and I’m not so prideful to ignore that I’ve also made calls that turn out to need adjusting down the road… but it baffles me why people put in positions of power and leadership are so often ignored almost on the whim of some well meaning but misguided other party. Certainly Carmack has the industry respect to be taken seriously. Why wasn’t he?

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#255

Post by dmix »

mnky9800n wrote: post #214
dmix wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a classic middle management malaise where everyone gets paid so well they don’t want to stir the pot? The bureaucracy and protection of today’s money cows which only clouds them from seeing tomorrow’s cows that will rescue them from certain obscurity? The Clayton M Christensen solution to big companies ignoring obvious problems is to have isolated small teams “infrapreneurship” who aren’t under the pressures…

How does this solution work? Does every team work this way? Is there no HR but only local administration? Or is it only a few teams who get this privilege? How do you avoid us vs. Them mentality in that situation?

Well most of the company still needs to keep the cash cow running. So it’s only 10% of the company at most typically. You just have to have your future bets simultaneously be taken serious and isolated from the middle management and cyclical swings of the parent company.

Often companies get excited about a new idea, staff and finance them well… then after a year or two they get thrown into the wider system and expected to survive.

Eventually they are absorbed and managed as if they are the old cash cow, needing layers of management, risk adversion, accelerated timelines, and new ‘processes’ to fix every small problem instead of focusing on the bigger picture.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#256

Post by adamsb6 »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #235
Blue111 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FB culture is way too positive and happy oh wow.. never thought they could be happy at FB

I interpreted this as coerced positivity and forced happiness. Not organic actual emotion from feeling fulfilled and successful within their role.

I'd say it's more a cultural echo of a time when it felt like anything was possible, and you were making stupid money to work on whatever you felt like working on, and everyone you interacted with was super competent and happy to help you out.

It used to be an incredibly fulfilling place to work.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#257

Post by aerovistae »

Arjuna wrote: post #111

”It has been a struggle for me. I have a voice at the highest levels here, so it feels like I should be able to move things, but I'm evidently not persuasive enough. A good fraction of the things I complain about eventually turn my way after a year or two passes and evidence piles up, but I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it. I…

Where are you quoting this from? A link would be nice, I don't see this in the article.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#258

Post by [deleted] »

posharma wrote: post #123
Arjuna wrote: post #111

”It has been a struggle for me. I have a voice at the highest levels here, so it feels like I should be able to move things, but I'm evidently not persuasive enough. A good fraction of the things I complain about eventually turn my way after a year or two passes and evidence piles up, but I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it. I…

Success in the corporate world requires more than technical prowess. One of those things is influence. It's not for everyone.

[deleted]

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#259

Post by musha68k »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #28
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

“During Meta's developer conference in October, Carmack hosted a solo hour-long talk about the company's Oculus or Quest headset. He admitted he had many things to be ‘grumpy’ about, like the company's rate of progress on technological advancements and the basic functionality of the headsets. He said it was frustrating to hear from people inside Meta who found the Quest 2 headsets so unreliable that they refused to u…

> This pattern—massive outlays followed by poor, possibly-rushed possibly-underpowered workmanship—sounds remarkably like corruption. I worked at a medium-sized company that went through a phase of hiring ex-FAANG people, thinking we'd improve our quality by implementing FAANG practices. It did the opposite: The ex-FAANG people were absolutely masterful at self-promotion, office politics, and collecting wins for them…

I always wonder how "old silicon valley" work culture would compare to the current one? How was it like working for Sun Microsystems in the 90s? Digital in the 80s?

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#260

Post by patothon »

lolinder wrote: post #126
throwabayhay wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I left FAANG basically because you had to play the politics and self-promotion game to get promoted. I have no reason to doubt that in the particular corner of your organization that may well have been the case, but you cannot generalize this over the whole field. As stated elsewhere, I never played any game to be promoted, I simply never consciously sought the goal of promotion, and I was promoted anyway just beca…

We have multiple people giving their anecdotes saying big tech positions emphasize self-promotion, and one anecdote (yours) saying they don't. So, sincere question: for those of us who haven't worked at a FAANG, why should we believe that your experience is the norm while the other people's is the "corner"?

I also work at a faang in a senior engineering role.

I agree with what the other commenter is saying. I’ve been in several teams with several managers and xfn partners and you have a lot of different cultures. From the toxic wasteland to the ultra focused get shit done right fast environment engineers love.

To your point about why more people complain than not, it’s the human condition. Haters hate is stronger than non haters happiness and are more than willing to share their salt

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