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Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

latimes.com

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Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#61

Post by ancapsfascists »

paxys wrote: post #51
ancapsfascists wrote: post #16

Federal lawmakers need to get over the history of water rights here. The system was built on assumptions that just don't hold (more water was apportioned than ever flows). You can give each state an amount and let them figure it out, or take all existing rights and re allocate them federally. But it needs to happen, and urgently. "But people will lose their income!" - Thats a symptom of requiring these people to work…

> I get it, I'm an anarchist You may need to read up the definition of that word

My guy, I've spent a decade reading up on that word. You want to talk Bookchin, Kroptkin, or Öcalan I'm available any time.

Respect to my anarchist comrades who are all or nothing, but I recognize the current system we live in, and I'm not going to throw away the useful tools before replacing them.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#62

Post by HEmanZ »

sammalloy wrote: post #12
HEmanZ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because some people may not grasp this: it is still individual humans consuming the water. Companies and industry don’t burn resources for no reason, they become products that consumers buy. The only real solution is that we consumers consume less, and probably spend more for the same products, period.

> The only real solution is that we consumers consume less, and probably spend more for the same products, period. I couldn’t disagree more. We need more regulation and taxation, and the real cost of the externalities added to the end product. The public is subsidizing and paying for private industry to pollute and use resources without accountability. That needs to end. The idea that the problem is solely due to per…

I think you’re reading the wrong thing into my comment. I would absolutely agree the problem is that externalities aren’t priced in. The result of pricing those in would be that everything gets more expensive and consumers get to consume less.

I don’t like the idea of blaming companies anymore than blaming individual consumers. They’re working in the same market

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#63

Post by rufus_foreman »

leoh wrote: post #50
ancorevard wrote: post #28

What water infrastructure has California invested in the last decade? As far as I can tell, all that CA Gov has done is to prohibit any desalination plants from getting built.

Yeah, it's not a good look, especially since California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean. Not only that, renewables like solar are perfect for desalination as you don't really need one of these systems to be running around the clock.

>> California is the only state that is adjacent to the ocean

That's interesting, I had no idea.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#64

Post by philsnow »

smcl wrote: post #42
ViViDboarder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t look like you disagree to me. The result of such taxes or regulations is less and more expensive consumption.

I read that the original comment was laying the blame at the feet of individual consumer choices - implying that if people simply bought/consumed less of … whatever is causing the Colorado river to be depleted then things would fix themselves. And the reply is saying that there need to be explicit regulations to cause this, presumably because people have really no way to know the what environmental impact each dollar…

I read it the same way, similarly to PR campaigns that tell Californians to water their lawns less and take fewer and shorter showers, even thought that usage uses by far less water than ag or industrial uses.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#65

Post by diob »

ancapsfascists wrote: post #61
paxys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get it, I'm an anarchist You may need to read up the definition of that word

My guy, I've spent a decade reading up on that word. You want to talk Bookchin, Kroptkin, or Öcalan I'm available any time. Respect to my anarchist comrades who are all or nothing, but I recognize the current system we live in, and I'm not going to throw away the useful tools before replacing them.

Heck, even Chomsky is an anarchist. I don't know what the comment to you was insinuating, that we shouldn't fix things?

Big https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/330/819/e47... energy.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#66

Post by avandermeulen »

“One way or another, physics and Mother Nature are going to dictate outcomes if we don’t come up with some solutions,” Entsminger said. “I would like every water user on the Colorado River to recognize that the 21st century has substantially less water than the 20th century. And all of the institutions we built in the 20th century need to be adjusted — in months, not years — in order to face the reality of less water for every user, in every sector, in every state.”

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#67

Post by hutzlibu »

diob wrote: post #65
ancapsfascists wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy, I've spent a decade reading up on that word. You want to talk Bookchin, Kroptkin, or Öcalan I'm available any time. Respect to my anarchist comrades who are all or nothing, but I recognize the current system we live in, and I'm not going to throw away the useful tools before replacing them.

Heck, even Chomsky is an anarchist. I don't know what the comment to you was insinuating, that we shouldn't fix things? Big https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/330/819/e47... energy.

"I don't know what the comment to you was insinuating"

Obviously that anarchism means, being opposed to all government activity, regulation and rules, so he cannot call him an anarchist if he wants rules for a river. But the thing with anarchism is, that there is not really a authorative definition accepted and in use ..

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#68

Post by lazide »

ancapsfascists wrote: post #61
paxys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get it, I'm an anarchist You may need to read up the definition of that word

My guy, I've spent a decade reading up on that word. You want to talk Bookchin, Kroptkin, or Öcalan I'm available any time. Respect to my anarchist comrades who are all or nothing, but I recognize the current system we live in, and I'm not going to throw away the useful tools before replacing them.

How do you reconcile being an anarchist with calling for federal rule making interventionism?

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#69

Post by grogenaut »

a9h74j wrote: post #58
tzs wrote: post #36

I wonder if it is possible to take two or more high water using industries and combine them in a way that would all the combination to work on substantially less water than they were using individually? For example we've all read that it takes a little over a gallon to grow an almond. And it takes about 10 gallons to make one integrated circuit. But that almond does not contain a gallon of water. The almond only cont…

I associate Lester Brown with the observation: It is too expensive to ship water, but when you ship wheat, you are in effect shipping water.

it's even cheaper to ship whiskey which I'm all for

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#70

Post by lazide »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #29
haswell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that there is no legal framework (or avenue to one) that would allow the federal government to step in here?

Yea, the OP said federal legislators should do something. The constitution provides them a legal framework for writing laws.

The current setup is strongly based on historic water rights laws.

Touching that would be opening a giant Pandora’s box few legislators want to handle.

And with how broken Congress is in general, do ANY of the states involved think that would produce a better outcome?

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