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A Linux Evening

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Re: A Linux Evening

#261

Post by iraqmtpizza »

swayvil wrote: post #260
iraqmtpizza wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu desktop is anything but stable. Nuke-and-pave is the only sane solution to the OS corruption issues. The GUI is more stripped down than a holocaust victim. They still haven't figured out drag and drop. And on top of that, everyone swears such-and-such distribution is actually the good one, but it never is. The desktop is in permanent demo mode. A back-burner school project that turned into a part-time hobby. M…

Ok, ya, last time I used Ubuntu I didn't like it either. I like Debian (Ubuntu is derived from it apparently), with MATE desktop.

It is about what I would expect from an OS that considers UI to be bloatware and viral anti-business licenses to be more free than permissive ones.

Re: A Linux Evening

#262

Post by lloeki »

riskable wrote: post #227
alexpotato wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always like this story about MacOs. - Most OSes do a full dhcp look up when they connect to a network even if they have connected to the network before. Wifi saved networks is a good example of a network where you have some historical information on the connection - MacOs however keeps track of the IP addresses that it saw for each of the networks it has connected to recently. If it sees a network it's been on befo…

...and the network intrusion detection system throws up all sorts of alarm bells about IPs being spoofed and duplicate IPs in use. I assume MacOS actually only re-uses IPs if it sees the lease hasn't already expired but it might be dumber than that.

IIRC it does, and otherwise throws out (or used to) an ARP check (or something like that) to see if any one on the local link is using the IP. A properly behaved DHCP server would not hand the IP again to someone else if the lease hasn't expired.

Re: A Linux Evening

#263

Post by opan »

iraqmtpizza wrote: post #261
swayvil wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, ya, last time I used Ubuntu I didn't like it either. I like Debian (Ubuntu is derived from it apparently), with MATE desktop.

It is about what I would expect from an OS that considers UI to be bloatware and viral anti-business licenses to be more free than permissive ones.

Freedom 0 of free software, use the software for any purpose, includes commercial usage. There's nothing anti-business about it.

Re: A Linux Evening

#264

Post by bryanlarsen »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #203
bryanlarsen wrote: post #64

This is prototypical of the standard Linux experience, but I'd like to remark on just how much less common this sort of thing is. Modern Linux and modern Linux distributions have a much larger "just work" factor and it's getting better every year in my experience. Slowly and asymptotically, but it is improvement. This was driven home recently by my experience switching to NixOS. NixOS is brilliant in many ways, but b…

I too am 100% burnt from a quarter of a century of random "Linux evenings". I've concluded that GNU Linux will always be a great CLI server OS, however those past 25 years has soured me into calling the Linux Desktop a toy. I'm 100% done investing my time solving issues just like this one. The biggest lesson I've learned is to simply not trust it to be a daily driver.

But what do you replace it with? Windows also has "Windows Evenings" that I can't pull on my 30 years of experience to fix, and MacOS forces you to do things their way. And I'm a grumpy old man who likes things my way.

Re: A Linux Evening

#265

Post by iraqmtpizza »

opan wrote: post #263
iraqmtpizza wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about what I would expect from an OS that considers UI to be bloatware and viral anti-business licenses to be more free than permissive ones.

Freedom 0 of free software, use the software for any purpose, includes commercial usage. There's nothing anti-business about it.

I agree. Using software modifications as a competitive advantage in business does not violate free software licenses. It does, however, violate non-free licenses like GPL

Re: A Linux Evening

#266

Post by smashed »

bombcar wrote: post #145
nneonneo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the pause/unpause might be the way to fix this properly, since trying to be heuristically smarter sounds like a recipe for never-ending corner case bugs like the OP’s issue. The patch for pausing and unpausing seems quite reasonable, except that it does require driver support (unsurprising - you’re literally reallocating the resources used by the driver!). I suppose if you had at least a few movable de…

Would a workaround be that whenever the kernel detects this happening (and it did, it dmesg printed it) that it somehow increases an internal counter so on next reboot there will be more resources? This would require the kernel being able to either update its own command line somehow, or having some permanent storage somewhere it could store it. Or this could all be done by systemd - detect that message, increase the…

Kernel state does not survive reboots afaik.

That would need help from userland, which is not involved in the early boot process.

You could I guess change kernel init parameters and save that in your boot loader, but that is very hackish.

Re: A Linux Evening

#267

Post by julianeon »

cryptonector wrote: post #200

> > Out of curiosity, how did you come up with this solution? > The author, dkozel, never came back to answer. I imagine they typed the solution on a 40% keyboard featuring unmarked keys and then rolled into the sunset on a Segway for which they had compiled the kernel themselves. Completely oblivious of their awesomeness and of how many people would later find solace in their prose. Here's how I would have started t…

I doubt you need the work but, man, you'd make a dream Integration engineer. Like on a scale of 1 to 1,000 you sound like a perfect 1000.

Re: A Linux Evening

#268

Post by lostdog »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #61
nneonneo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the pause/unpause might be the way to fix this properly, since trying to be heuristically smarter sounds like a recipe for never-ending corner case bugs like the OP’s issue. The patch for pausing and unpausing seems quite reasonable, except that it does require driver support (unsurprising - you’re literally reallocating the resources used by the driver!). I suppose if you had at least a few movable de…

What is the point in having all of the drivers be open sourced and mainlined if we're not willing to fix them to support this?

> What is the point in having all of the drivers be open sourced and mainlined if we're not willing to fix them to support this?

With open source and mainlined drivers, it's very difficult to change all the drivers and ensure they work.

Without open source and mainlined drivers, it becomes impossible.

Re: A Linux Evening

#269

Post by cryptonector »

julianeon wrote: post #267
cryptonector wrote: post #200

> > Out of curiosity, how did you come up with this solution? > The author, dkozel, never came back to answer. I imagine they typed the solution on a 40% keyboard featuring unmarked keys and then rolled into the sunset on a Segway for which they had compiled the kernel themselves. Completely oblivious of their awesomeness and of how many people would later find solace in their prose. Here's how I would have started t…

I doubt you need the work but, man, you'd make a dream Integration engineer. Like on a scale of 1 to 1,000 you sound like a perfect 1000.

I mean, this is... basic stuff. Well, ok, one has to learn to navigate enormous codebases, but then when one has, this sort of thing is easy. I'm not a genius! And this skill can be taught and learned, and nothing helps like actually doing it. There was a time when I had no clue, you know.

Your mention of integration does bring back some memories of a bank I worked at where we had source code to proprietary operating systems, and it was sooo useful to a) debug things, b) find undocumented things and ways to work around bugs and limiations, and I was pretty much the only one using that source code. At the time I didn't really understand that (b) is risky, but I managed not to get burned. That was how I started learning how to navigate huge codebases.

Re: A Linux Evening

#270

Post by jodrellblank »

arghwhat wrote: post #236
runjake wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it sounds like you’re saying is “If you don’t know how to code, GTFO” because in all likelihood the parent made this comment because they’re not capable.

Not quite. If you are a non-developer not patient enough to wait for others to volunteer, or are a developer thinking that your time is somehow more valuable than those of the maintainers, then GTFO. :) Waiting patiently and politely reporting bugs is a fine strategy: If a problem affects enough people, it will eventually affect a developer capable and willing to fix it. If you want it go faster, you will have to get…

Where did AnIdiotOnTheNet's comment include not being a developer, not being patient, or thinking their time is more valuable than others?

Why is it so much more important to put someone in their place and win internet points with ad-homs in the "community" which supposedly values freedom?

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