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John Carmack Leaves Meta

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Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#161

Post by skirmish »

zrail wrote: post #82
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This pattern—massive outlays followed by poor, possibly-rushed possibly-underpowered workmanship—sounds remarkably like corruption. I worked at a medium-sized company that went through a phase of hiring ex-FAANG people, thinking we'd improve our quality by implementing FAANG practices. It did the opposite: The ex-FAANG people were absolutely masterful at self-promotion, office politics, and collecting wins for them…

The entire incentive structure and cycle at FAANG and FAANG-like companies requires relentless self-promotion and buck-passing not just to move up but to _not get fired_. Many of these companies have levels with a clock attached, where if too many quarters pass while you're at that level you're automatically managed out. If you don't get promoted you get fired, and the way to get promoted is to get relentlessly good…

Only entry levels are "up or out". Once you are a senior, there is no expectation to get promoted to staff.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#162

Post by koudelka »

wpietri wrote: post #45
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This pattern—massive outlays followed by poor, possibly-rushed possibly-underpowered workmanship—sounds remarkably like corruption. I worked at a medium-sized company that went through a phase of hiring ex-FAANG people, thinking we'd improve our quality by implementing FAANG practices. It did the opposite: The ex-FAANG people were absolutely masterful at self-promotion, office politics, and collecting wins for them…

> self-promotion, office politics, and collecting wins for themselves A pal who was a manager at a FAANG said, "If you give people one game to play, they're going to play it very energetically." He was speaking of the promotion game, of course.

"You show loyalty, they learn loyalty. You show them it’s about the work, it’ll be about the work. You show them some other kind of game, and that’s the game they’ll play."

-- The Wire

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#163

Post by staunch »

Nothing could be a stronger indictment of Mark Zuckerberg's ability to lead teams and create innovative products than the fact that he wasn't able to utilize John fucking Carmack properly.

Even with all the money in the world, Zuckerberg is just too conventional, uncreative, and lacking in genuine enthusiasm. He's been totally unable to create the kind of esprit de corps present in every great team.

He cloned and acquired his entire career and it's made him weak. He was never forced to actually get good.

What inspiration there is at Meta today was brought there by Palmer Luckey and John Carmack years ago. And, since it can't be cloned or bought by Zuckerberg, it has simply dwindled away year by year.

The upside is that Oculus launched the VR industery. And now it's just a matter of time until VR evolves from a toy to a powerful tool. Maybe Meta will eventually make it happen, they certainly have the money, but more likely Apple or a startup will give it The Big Push.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#164

Post by pengaru »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #151
pengaru wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger the ship the smaller your rudder is.

He was Bethesda and Oculus. He isn’t Meta. Meta doesn’t seem to be able to do anything at all. At Facebook it was an unrivaled (yet amoral) champion of social media, but it doesn’t even seem like that now

> He was Bethesda and Oculus. He isn’t Meta.

Meta is gargantuan compared to 2009-2013 Bethesda, which frankly seems like a golden handcuffs-era footnote in Carmack's professional history. He isn't even mentioned once in Bethesda's wikipedia page[0]...

Oculus seemed far more apropos for a get-shit-done guy like Carmack. Personally I think FB acquiring him/Oculus was an almost certain shitty outcome for the VR technology.

But I'm glad Carmack surely refilled the piggy bank in the process. I look forward to seeing what he manages to do free of the FB/Meta albatross with gas in the tank.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#165

Post by steve_adams_86 »

primitivesuave wrote: post #43
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #2

There is a pay wall, so I haven't read the article. I just want to put it out there: Did this seem predictable to anyone? I had the sense he was unsatisfied and Meta's public perception, particularly in Carmack's department, seemed to be plummeting. It seemed very likely that this would happen, but maybe I'm projecting too much. I imagined myself being deeply ungratified in his role.

His note to Meta: https://archive.vn/t6zQp

Oh wow. What he’s describing really resonates with me. Working in software, I feel it’s almost dichotomous in its nature that people absolutely coast or absolutely give a damn. It can be so difficult to work on a coasting team. And otherwise, it’s torture to your soul not to give a damn around people who do (if you care, I guess).

In his role I can see that being a genuine struggle, arguably worse than what I’ve encountered. I’ve rarely had agency to effect change, or even the illusion of it. In his case, it must have felt as though he should be able to get things on course somehow. That would be frustrating.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#166

Post by neilv »

yawnxyz wrote: post #65
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This pattern—massive outlays followed by poor, possibly-rushed possibly-underpowered workmanship—sounds remarkably like corruption. I worked at a medium-sized company that went through a phase of hiring ex-FAANG people, thinking we'd improve our quality by implementing FAANG practices. It did the opposite: The ex-FAANG people were absolutely masterful at self-promotion, office politics, and collecting wins for them…

it's so wild to me that FAANG has these hiring walls set up — like crazy coding challenges — only for the best engineers to then do work equivalent to what you see at gov't or consulting jobs. Why do they make it so hard to work for them, just for their employees to play status games?

No post body was provided.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#167

Post by nomel »

lyu07282 wrote: post #139
nomel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no mandatory Facebook account, anymore. It's now a mandatory Meta account. Facebook is only linked if you want it to be. Meta has said that this was in response to disapproval of the mandatory Facebook account.

Which naturally, if you don't create a Meta account till January they are gonna delete all your purchased vr apps.

I can't imagine they want to support two separate account systems, especially with the amount of potential PII involved (like eye/face tracking training data).

This required change is heavily communicated, when you put on the headset. Nobody will be surprised when their account stops working. Your comment makes it sound like it could possibly happen on accident.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#168

Post by sp332 »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #2

There is a pay wall, so I haven't read the article. I just want to put it out there: Did this seem predictable to anyone? I had the sense he was unsatisfied and Meta's public perception, particularly in Carmack's department, seemed to be plummeting. It seemed very likely that this would happen, but maybe I'm projecting too much. I imagined myself being deeply ungratified in his role.

He hasn't seemed happy since the beginning. So this was a surprise to me. I thought he would leave after something vested, but that doesn't seem to have determined the timing.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#169

Post by astrange »

slimginz wrote: post #127
JohnFen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't surprise me if he has a noncompete in play that prevents him from continuing his VR work for a few years.

Oh Meta 100% has some sort of non-compete in writing, especially after his lawsuit with Bethesda when he left Id to work at Oculus[1]. [1] https://www.pcgamer.com/zenimax-accuses-john-carmack-of-thef...

There is absolutely no such thing as a non-compete in California.

Re: John Carmack Leaves Meta

#170

Post by xixixao »

srajabi wrote: post #7

Basically Carmack is frustrated by: 1. Rate of progress on AR/VR at meta 2. People within Meta not "Giving a Dam!" / Poor decisions made within the org 3. Poor quality of the execution which I guess is related to #2 Relevant quote: "It pains me to hear people say that they don't even get their headset out to show off at the company because they know it's going to be a mess of charging and updating before they can mak…

That’s the correct quote. The Quest Pro with its wireless charger actually largely solves this problem. Try not using an Android phone for a month, and then use it. It’s the same nightmare (after all the headsets are Android devices with internal batteries).

It’s an important gripe, but it will be solved. I think there are more fundamental issues. It’s hard to explain, but even with superphysical level of improvement I don’t see people enmass wearing VR or MR headsets the way we use phones, airpods, and to lesser extent watches.

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