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Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

latimes.com

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Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#21

Post by bradleyjg »

landemva wrote: post #7
throw0101c wrote: post #3

From a 2020 paper: > Human consumption of freshwater is now approaching or surpassing the rate at which water sources are being naturally replenished in many regions, creating water shortage risks for people and ecosystems. Here we assess the impact of human water uses and their connection to water scarcity and ecological damage across the United States, identify primary causes of river dewatering and explore ways to…

> irrigated feed crops Simple solution - those who believe that is the problem can offer to buy the water rights and then let the water flow.

No they can’t. Western water law is incredibly convoluted and irrational. It prevents this exact thing under the doctrine of beneficial use.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#22

Post by recursive »

gernb wrote: post #8
imchillyb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch 2-3 episodes of 'How it's Made' and you can see how much water use is industrial. Add the industrial and cattle together and one can quickly see that it's not humans that are consuming the vast majority of potable water, but companies and industry that are depleting what's available for the rest of us.

> it's not humans that are consuming the vast majority of potable water, but companies and industry that are depleting what's available for the rest of us. companies only make what they can sell. The sell what consumers want. So it is humans. Humans want meat. If they stop wanting meat companies will stop making meat.

If you think the cost of meat has no impact on its consumption, you're dreaming.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#23

Post by insane_dreamer »

throw0101c wrote: post #3

From a 2020 paper: > Human consumption of freshwater is now approaching or surpassing the rate at which water sources are being naturally replenished in many regions, creating water shortage risks for people and ecosystems. Here we assess the impact of human water uses and their connection to water scarcity and ecological damage across the United States, identify primary causes of river dewatering and explore ways to…

> Irrigation of cattle feed crops is the single largest consumptive user ... 55 percent in the Colorado River basin.

That's a pretty shocking statistic. Seems like the most logical place to cut despite impact on dairy/cattle production.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#24

Post by jemmyw »

gernb wrote: post #8
imchillyb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch 2-3 episodes of 'How it's Made' and you can see how much water use is industrial. Add the industrial and cattle together and one can quickly see that it's not humans that are consuming the vast majority of potable water, but companies and industry that are depleting what's available for the rest of us.

> it's not humans that are consuming the vast majority of potable water, but companies and industry that are depleting what's available for the rest of us. companies only make what they can sell. The sell what consumers want. So it is humans. Humans want meat. If they stop wanting meat companies will stop making meat.

That's not entirely true. Supply, demand and culture have some complexities in them. Humans want meat, but the kind of meat they consume is based on what is available. And then it seems to follow that what they want to consume in the future is based on what was available in the past, not on what is most economical now. A kind of cultural feedback loop which results in most of the shellfish around England being sold in Europe because the English don't want to eat it.

I'm sure this kind of feedback loop happens in a lot of industries. Companies don't just make what people want, they also make people want things. Throw in regulation too, which limits the shape of what can be produced. I think what it boils down to is that when you say people want X, that want is not unshaped by those providing it plus other external factors, so there can be a path to people not wanting it that doesn't just involve their individual decisions.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#25

Post by quesera »

ancapsfascists wrote: post #16

Federal lawmakers need to get over the history of water rights here. The system was built on assumptions that just don't hold (more water was apportioned than ever flows). You can give each state an amount and let them figure it out, or take all existing rights and re allocate them federally. But it needs to happen, and urgently. "But people will lose their income!" - Thats a symptom of requiring these people to work…

Sure, that's the easy answer. But you must have a legal framework in which to do so.

Otherwise, what do you have?

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#26

Post by bcrosby95 »

I was surprised how slow the Metro Water District of SoCal took to move on this. They restricted water use for residents relying on the state water project back in June. But they've sat on their hands for the Colorado River until just a few days ago.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#27

Post by haswell »

quesera wrote: post #25
ancapsfascists wrote: post #16

Federal lawmakers need to get over the history of water rights here. The system was built on assumptions that just don't hold (more water was apportioned than ever flows). You can give each state an amount and let them figure it out, or take all existing rights and re allocate them federally. But it needs to happen, and urgently. "But people will lose their income!" - Thats a symptom of requiring these people to work…

Sure, that's the easy answer. But you must have a legal framework in which to do so. Otherwise, what do you have?

Are you suggesting that there is no legal framework (or avenue to one) that would allow the federal government to step in here?

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#29

Post by ViViDboarder »

haswell wrote: post #27
quesera wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's the easy answer. But you must have a legal framework in which to do so. Otherwise, what do you have?

Are you suggesting that there is no legal framework (or avenue to one) that would allow the federal government to step in here?

Yea, the OP said federal legislators should do something. The constitution provides them a legal framework for writing laws.

Re: Fears of ‘dead pool’ on Colorado River as drought threatens Hoover Dam water

#30

Post by diggernet »

quesera wrote: post #25
ancapsfascists wrote: post #16

Federal lawmakers need to get over the history of water rights here. The system was built on assumptions that just don't hold (more water was apportioned than ever flows). You can give each state an amount and let them figure it out, or take all existing rights and re allocate them federally. But it needs to happen, and urgently. "But people will lose their income!" - Thats a symptom of requiring these people to work…

Sure, that's the easy answer. But you must have a legal framework in which to do so. Otherwise, what do you have?

the legal framework is eminent domain
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