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‘Luddite’ Teens

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#261

Post by armenarmen »

floren wrote: post #254
armenarmen wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever hear of the Sam Vimes Boot Theory? Terry Pratchett in the Discworld novel Men at Arms has the Vimes say: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or…

> Ever hear of the Sam Vimes Boot Theory? Generally at least once a week on this very website. And on reddit. And on something awful.

Hahaha totally fair

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#262

Post by tannhauser23 »

legohead wrote: post #56
Archipelagia wrote: post #40

It reminded me of one of pg's old essays – http://paulgraham.com/addiction.html . Highly recommended. On a personal note, it's also something that worries me for the day when I'll finally have my own children. I wouldn't want them exposed to modern cyber-addictions from young age, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to protect them, when I can expect that all their peers will be on whatever social app's gonna be p…

It's very difficult. I was lucky to have access to the internet in the late 80s and have watched it grow, mature, evolve. I know how quickly things can change, and I don't want my kids to miss out or be left behind. But at the same time, the dangers that exist today didn't exist even in the 90s. My biggest fear then was receiving an email virus. Now, Social Media alone is enough to make a parent take a step back and…

Prediction: elite private schools will start banning social media and/or smartphone use by its students, and the trend will spread to the greater public.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#263

Post by browningstreet »

alphabettsy wrote: post #159
browningstreet wrote: post #38

My college aged son refuses a phone. Uni gave him an iPad, he rarely uses it -- he has his laptop. He has no social. None of his classmates care one way or the other. It's all good.

I have a good friend like this, he works remotely now after graduating and moving and he’s pretty lonely. Won’t be true of everyone of course.

Are you suggesting a link between his lack of phone and his loneliness, or his moving and his loneliness?

I know our generation (you can guess) is painted with the "too obsessed with social" habit.. and I'd say the preponderance of people staring at their phones during all moments of life (driving, shopping, dining with their partners) makes them no less lonely. You can pretend you're not lonely as long as you have a graph to pulldown-reload.

I have a phone, no one has called it in years, I wouldn't say I'm lonely.

Even if they're orthogonal, there's something seemingly off with people staring at their phones all the time, during every moment in life. My last gf would pick up her phone the minute I paused a show to pop into the kitchen or go to the restroom. That didn't bother me.. what bothered me is when she didn't notice my return and put the phone down so we could return to our show or movie. I'd have to do the "I'm back" cough or shoulder tap. It became increasingly objectionable.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#264

Post by RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm »

pessimizer wrote: post #98
rootusrootus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next step after this epiphany is to realize you can do this without actually giving up the phone. Just because it's in your pocket doesn't mean you need to pull it out constantly and look at it. It's just a tool, relegate it to that position in your life and don't use it like a pacifier.

That's not realistic. The phone is calling out, begging you to pay attention to it, and makes itself more difficult to use the less you want to be entangled. You just have to put it away. If it's a tool, treat it like a tool. You don't carry a hammer in your pocket all day.

The underlying issue is lack of self-discipline (to not over-consume things like the phone), not the phone itself.

Removing the phone is treating the symptoms instead of the issue.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#265

Post by soulofmischief »

LegitShady wrote: post #151
soulofmischief wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear of coming across as performative has overall hindered my ability to coexist within certain subcultures. I wish I cared less about this and I admire people who manage to find cultural unity through performance.

at some point you have to realize the overwhelming majority of people you're worried about being judged by aren't people whose opinions you'd care about if they were offered to you, and that being an authentic you is more important than the judgement of strangers. A lot of people's lives could be way better if they internalized this.

I like to remind myself that the world has done nothing for me.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#266

Post by jhanschoo »

tryauuum wrote: post #204
legohead wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult. I was lucky to have access to the internet in the late 80s and have watched it grow, mature, evolve. I know how quickly things can change, and I don't want my kids to miss out or be left behind. But at the same time, the dangers that exist today didn't exist even in the 90s. My biggest fear then was receiving an email virus. Now, Social Media alone is enough to make a parent take a step back and…

I don't have kids so you can throw away my advice instantly But if I were doing it, I'd do the same, but allowed couple of days per month of unrestricted internet usage. Just so they would experience how unproductive these days are compared to normal days

Ymmv, I hang about discords full of underperforming children and they would like nothing better than to game and chat with friends all day, as did myself when I was a child. That said, there is usually something lacking in their (and my) family culture that results in such behavior.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#267

Post by paulryanrogers »

McSwag wrote: post #235
411111111111111 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social Media alone is enough to make a parent take a step back and wonder what is the right time to introduce your children to the internet. I can't help but wonder whenever I hear this message: do you know, really ? After taking with them a little, it often comes down to pretty ... innocuous things in my opinion. Sure, there's always peer pressure and they'll be constantly judged etc, but that's just a an exaggera…

That’s a serious concern for sure. There’s also the weaponization of information which shouldn’t be overlooked. At an age when kids really haven’t learned to think critically or have the wisdom to realize they’re being manipulated particularly those vulnerable teen years, I think parents do need to consider this. It’s pretty much at least a second job to keep tabs on what kids are viewing/consuming/doing online at al…

Kids were being manipulated by information long before the Internet. I was raised in evangelistic religion. It is a blight on mankind, teaching kids magical thinking, confirmation bias, survivorship bias, appeal to authority, etc. Then there's all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain "the truth", much of it written by grifters.

It's good to take care, yet at the end of the day the kids have to grow up. So they need the tools to evaluate information. This can start early and schools can help even if parents won't, or even if parents are part of the problem.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#268

Post by paulryanrogers »

jhanschoo wrote: post #266
tryauuum wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have kids so you can throw away my advice instantly But if I were doing it, I'd do the same, but allowed couple of days per month of unrestricted internet usage. Just so they would experience how unproductive these days are compared to normal days

Ymmv, I hang about discords full of underperforming children and they would like nothing better than to game and chat with friends all day, as did myself when I was a child. That said, there is usually something lacking in their (and my) family culture that results in such behavior.

Humans are lazy. They like things others consider a waste of time. Kids don't need more judgement or strictly regimented 'culture'.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#269

Post by mcphage »

wil421 wrote: post #202
Archipelagia wrote: post #40

It reminded me of one of pg's old essays – http://paulgraham.com/addiction.html . Highly recommended. On a personal note, it's also something that worries me for the day when I'll finally have my own children. I wouldn't want them exposed to modern cyber-addictions from young age, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to protect them, when I can expect that all their peers will be on whatever social app's gonna be p…

We recently deleted my 3 years old YouTube Kids app and the change made me contemplate my own live decisions. She likes Disney and a few other toddler style games. Seeing the difference in her behavior has made me look hard at my own YouTube watching.

Even though it’s filtered, the amount of garbage on YouTube Kids is astounding. We made the same choice.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#270

Post by maeil »

sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

I do think it's a significant price to pay. While a lot of teens are indeed like this, plenty aren't, and I'd (admittedly without evidence) guess that there's actually a negative correlation between wanting to be part of such a performative group and liking the idea behind the group to the extent of being willing to participate in it and make "sacrifices" for doing so. Maybe it's just personal bias but back when I was a teen, I'd have loved the idea behind it but definitely not joined it for that reason. Especially as a teen, being the only one not participating in the aesthestic would made me feel left out.
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