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BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

element.io

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Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#191

Post by mxuribe »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #135
Hamuko wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm just waiting for the Matrix app that I don't hate. And for that matter, the SMTP app that I don't hate.

I wonder if Matrix could be used for social media

Yes, i remember there have been early experiments leveraging the matrix protocol for many scenarios including blog platforms and social media...But i don;t think its popular to do so. Most people interested in federated social media tend to use ActivityPub (protocol), and use servers and clients already optimized for such a social media use case on the Fediverse (mastodon is a recent popular software stack, but there are many, many others).

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#192

Post by Arathorn »

lakomen wrote: post #184

"Matrix is the secure real time alternative to SMTP" I stopped reading there. I used Element in the past and Matrix is a clusterfuck. Python server slow, Go server not feature complete. Channels available uninteresting, mostly cryptocurrency. A few porn channels, that's it. I wish it wasn't so. If anything Matrix is a replacement for IRC, absolutely not email. Then, I am absolutely NOT installing a Bundes-anything on…

we’ll miss you :’(

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#193

Post by Arathorn »

walterbell wrote: post #186
Arathorn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gematik co-funded the most recent Matrix audit of vodozemac[1], and is poised to fund 3 more (of matrix-rust-sdk-crypto, matrix-rust-sdk and the whole stack end-to-end) to ensure the E2EE is where it needs to be. So I'd say that the German government definitely cares about E2EE for its civil servants, and we're very grateful for them funding security research. Meanwhile, BWI is helping fund the work needed to address…

> BWI.. also funding work to provide MLS as an option for E2EE in Matrix, https://www.golem.de/news/bwmessenger-vom-messenger-der-bund... Good news that BWI is funding a Matrix implementation of the multi-vendor IETF standard MLS group messaging E2EE protocol. The (translated to English) linked reference doesn't mention MLS, is it correct?

oops, https://www.golem.de/news/bwmessenger-vom-messenger-der-bund... might be the right link

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#194

Post by sandos »

foepys wrote: post #38

Germany was quite advanced when it came to technology but then the drive to make more of it somehow stopped. It has always been incredibly sad to me that the German ID card (Personalausweis) has an RFID chip inside with trust zones, certificates, authorization features, and much more and just never had been used. Like at all except for getting cigarettes at vending machines. 12 years after the first RFID Personalausw…

Its fascinating what EU can accomplish, but in my mind drivers licenses and "national IDs" (that are usable when travelling in EU) should be merged and unified over the union. Imagine how much simpler things would be! And this tech used in Germany sounds like a very nice base for it.

I mean I would also make them passports but I think that is impossible.

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#195

Post by Klonoar »

mxuribe wrote: post #188
Hamuko wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm just waiting for the Matrix app that I don't hate. And for that matter, the SMTP app that I don't hate.

@Hamuko I have been on matrix several years, and lately I've been really liking Schildi Chat [ https://schildi.chat ]. Also, many other users that i know really like Fluffy Chat [ https://fluffychat.im/ ]. In any case, there are several more options nowadays.

There are really no options outside of Element, unless you're a Linux user - then maybe you have a few ones.

All alternative clients on iOS, macOS, and arguably Windows are an absolute clusterfuck of UI/UX, broken features, and varying stages of completion. I say this as someone who wants Matrix to work: people need to demand more from client apps, and client apps need to stop being okay with barely hitting the bar.

Element also needs to set the bar, which I frankly don't think it currently does - but that's supposedly being rewritten, so I'm hopeful for what they produce.

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#196

Post by lgreiv »

kioleanu wrote: post #20
MoSattler wrote: post #7

I really like the idea. But I am skeptic - digitalisation of Germany's public services and offices in the past hasn't exactly been a success story.

It hasn’t but it’s on the right track. I am working as a developer in one of the federal agencies and have direct contact with the efforts. It helps a lot that public agencies can now offer a so called IT Zulage of a few hundred euros to 1000 per months that brings salaries on par with the private sector. In my team, this worked wonders and we managed to get some really good people. On the other hand, the task is eno…

I actually like the idea of becoming a public servant and bringing innovation to places that really matter for basically everyone around me, but salaries are not even in the same ballpark even with IT-Zulage.

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#197

Post by roenxi »

foepys wrote: post #38

Germany was quite advanced when it came to technology but then the drive to make more of it somehow stopped. It has always been incredibly sad to me that the German ID card (Personalausweis) has an RFID chip inside with trust zones, certificates, authorization features, and much more and just never had been used. Like at all except for getting cigarettes at vending machines. 12 years after the first RFID Personalausw…

The scars of WWII have well and truly healed if people are comfortable with this technology. The 1900s accrued a lot of experience with where this will go.

Usually I'll argue for market efficiency over other concerns; but in this case the Europeans are on to something with the GDPR. The role of government is to make this sort of personalised identification hard - not to enable it. The end game is going to be hard times and mass discrimination against minorities.

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#198

Post by jszymborski »

logifail wrote: post #139
jszymborski wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I totally agree that you shouldn't require identification for most services. But, for things like banking, car registration, etc... we require strong ID'ing, and it behooves society to make it secure. I still think municipalities should own their own data rather than have it stored at a central federal level, but we need municipalities to rely on something better than a serially-issued social insurance/security…

> car registration, etc... we require strong ID'ing Can you elaborate on what you mean by "strong"? I've been involved in precisely three car purchases over the last 20 years, and I don't recall what was involved in the way of ID checks. Have the feeling that at most some government-issued ID may have been pulled out of a wallet, presented ... and glanced at. The dealer handled the registration in every case. Oh, and…

I guess I should have phrased it as "we _should_ require strong ID'ing".

Absolutely agree that currently you can get away with faxed signatures, photocopies of IDs, and all manner of incredibly "weak" ID'ing.

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#199

Post by Semaphor »

lakomen wrote: post #185
Semaphor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also generate a certificate. Registering it requires receiving a letter by snail mail and it expires every X years (5 maybe?), but otherwise it's just like your certificate for your server you use to SSH in.

2 years

3 years. I’m back at my computer and checked, my certificates were 2013, 2016, 2019 and 2022

Re: BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

#200

Post by romwell »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #175
numpad0 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think modern political criticisms might be too dismissive of inefficient bureaucratic developments, or we might be taking criticisms too seriously. They might be slow, complicated, budgeted terribly, unbelievably incompetent by standards of typical for-profit mega corporation, but a lot of those projects work at first try and works for decades, in the end. SLS capsule came back in one piece on first try. That Germa…

It is good this project is failing. Such a thing will never fly in the US. Both the left and right will rightfully or wrongfully oppose it for different reasons. Edit: E.g. see the left opposing voter ids in the US.

>Edit: E.g. see the left opposing voter ids in the US.

FYI, the left wasn't opposing voter IDs. The left was opposing Voter ID laws, which required a voter to have an ID, while selectively providing these IDs to the population.

That's a uniquely American problem. We wouldn't have an issue with a Voter ID law if everyone was guaranteed to have a state ID, regardless of where they live, whether they have a car or not, and whether they have money to pay for it (it should be free).

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