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3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

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Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Reading America's Secret War, by Stratfor's founder, had left me entirely in the dark about their mission and capabilities until this very moment. I stand enlightened." If you read it, what makes you think Dick Cheney would be involved? The book apparently contradicts everything the neocons stood for. Cheney would probably prefer that Stratfor were shut down, so that he could control the flow of information. "No one…

> If you read it, what makes you think Dick Cheney would be involved? Nothing. Good luck finding anything where I say "Dick Cheney is involved with the operations of Stratfor." > Ah, so you've gone from justifying it by saying they're evil and up to no good, to justifying it by saying they merely have interesting, secret shit to talk about. When I say interesting in the context of "how people are running the world,"…

" I mean interesting as in "lied to the public about an issue of global importance.""

It's so secret multiple HN readers have said they subscribed. It's so exclusive that anyone can subscribe for a yearly price that is cheaper than cable TV, let alone secret publications like "Science" or "Nature".

You really seem to have the wrong end of the stick here, as in not-clear-on-the-concept of how Stratfor worked.

If you want to know if someone has "lied to the public about an issue of global importance", and think Stratfor holds the answer, you would subscribe to Stratfor and compare what Stratfor reported to what the public figure claimed.

You've bought into some kind of radical left fantasy of what Stratfor does, turning it into the Trilateral Commission or the Bilderbergers.

"Any entity that needs Stratfor's analysis of global events and decisions seems like a reasonable candidate to deliver an important payload in such a leak."

See above about the Bilderbergers.

Say you're a company doing business with Turkey. Not a huge business, but you've got a lot riding on stability in Turkey. Maybe you import rugs. Maybe you do package tours of Istanbul. Maybe you have a team of developers there. Where do you go for good analysis of the situation there, given the history of military takeovers and whatnot?

The newspapers only cover it occasionally, probably too late to do you much good. MSNBC won't cover it at all on a weekend. FOX News would be all "OMG, Turkish Muslims! Threat or Menace?" and be useless. Turkish media might cover it, but not provide good analysis, and you don't know if the coverage is biased there, or if so, how.

So where do you turn? You could read the Economist, but that might not be good enough. Maybe you could buy some reports from the Economist Intelligence Unit, or Jane's. Or you could subscribe to Stratfor, which is probably cheaper.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#62
post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

[deleted]

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#63
post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

I have to back you on this. This doesn't sit in any moral grey area. This is nothing but corruption. If people genuinely have no problem with the outing of millions of private correspondences, then they should be publicly offering their own correspondences up for inspection.

If you're against SOPA, you should be against tyranny like this. This is the tyranny of the minority, of anarchists who aren't doing this for moral value or just cause. This wasn't even done for retaliation or idiot bashing like hbgary. This was done for no reason but to cause harm and mayhem.

I believe in the transparency of government, which is why I can turn my eye when wikileaks was doing their thing. I can't turn my eye if someone's raiding my neighbours mailbox and I hope no one else here would either, but I think it's pretty scummy that people here are supporting this.

Sorry folks but if people here aren't outraged by this, then say hello to your new HN subreddit.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you read it, what makes you think Dick Cheney would be involved? Nothing. Good luck finding anything where I say "Dick Cheney is involved with the operations of Stratfor." > Ah, so you've gone from justifying it by saying they're evil and up to no good, to justifying it by saying they merely have interesting, secret shit to talk about. When I say interesting in the context of "how people are running the world,"…

" I mean interesting as in "lied to the public about an issue of global importance."" It's so secret multiple HN readers have said they subscribed. It's so exclusive that anyone can subscribe for a yearly price that is cheaper than cable TV, let alone secret publications like "Science" or "Nature". You really seem to have the wrong end of the stick here, as in not-clear-on-the-concept of how Stratfor worked. If you w…

> You've bought into some kind of radical left fantasy

And you've gone to the zoo, friend. Almost to the point where I wonder if you're being deliberately obtuse to troll me. (Nice one, if so.)

Two things to note, here.

1. Stratfor has public products and private analysis services.

2. I'm not talking about what they've disclosed publicly.

You could substitute "Stratfor" with "The New York Times Company" in this scenario and I would take the same position. Papers rarely publish all they know, as sometimes it's a better bet to keep quiet on something juicy to avoid burning bridges. Papers are also routinely asked to sit on a story, or bury it outright, as a favor in exchange for access.

A leak of all New York Times emails would probably include a lot of the same sort of content and people I'm imagining in a Stratfor leak. The SNR wouldn't be nearly as favorable, since the Times has a much more public profile and a much broader scope than just global events. Stratfor's specific focus makes it much likelier that any given source, or any given chum of the CEO, has said something via email that could be pretty powerful, were it disclosed. I'd also wager that Stratfor content will be more candid, since it's a smaller world than mass market newspaper publishing.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, it's the reason governments will clamp down and regulate the internet more and more. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hacking is already illegal. What could governments have done to prevent this?

Introduce SOPA/PIPA/a variant thereof, and takedown/prosecute anyone hosting this content.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#66
post #42
post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

You mean “without any prior evidence”. The phrase “a priori” means “by reason or deduction alone, without empirical evidence”. The phrase “a priori evidence” is an oxymoron.

It's the internet, if you don't start adding random i's to words, people will think you're new to the place. Don't forget the Viri, or even Virii.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#67
post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

I would have to follow the twisted logic, Do you really expect these people to have not committed any crimes over the entire course of the emails?

I would have more of a issue if this was personal correspondence but this is dealing with large US institutions and people that deal with policy.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#68
post #60
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bradley Manning was not one of the "good ones". Sorry.

I yield to your well-founded argument. P.S: I consider publication of information about war cruelty and international political pressure as benefiting for mankind, ethically good and thus conforming to the "hacker ethics".

How about this...

Bradley Manning posted two types of information. War Footage and Diplomatic Cables. The War Footage was unpleasant to watch but didn't document anything that wasn't already well known (at least to anyone who paid attention to Iraqi Civilian Casualty Numbers). As such no change has been made by the government.

The second group, diplomatic cables, actually caused harm. The whole point of diplomacy is to avoid war. Manning leaked info (such as state department officials' personal opinion of other world leaders) that made it harder to deal with them. Hence making diplomacy harder and war more likely.

I think the larger point with the Stratfor hack and Manning's actions is it's dumb to release indiscriminately. Good reporting has always involved inside sources but those reporters targeted the actual corruption and only released that.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#69
post #7

900 upvotes and 92 comments on the reddit thread, yet not one comment that is critical of this action. To release the emails of private individuals and firms without any a priori evidence that they have committed any sort of crime is distasteful to me. It would be unethical if the tables were turned and ordinary citizens were getting their emails released. And its unethical in this case as well, regardless of whether…

There's a significant difference between business and personal emails.

If you write anything in a business email you should assume that it may become public at some point in the future. Both your employer and the recipients employer have the right to read it, as does any company that acquires either party.

The email may also be demanded by the government for a variety of reason or by a court in pursuit of a civil case.

Business emails have much weaker privacy protection than personal emails because it's assumed that from the very beginning that any privacy arises from the commercial implications of the contents rather than the inherent privacy that you have when two private individuals are discussing a personal matter.

Re: 3.3 million e-mails between the most powerful men are about to be released.

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, it's the reason governments will clamp down and regulate the internet more and more. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hacking is already illegal. What could governments have done to prevent this?

What they could, and are discussing doing, is defining Hacking as terrorism. I heard this from my own congressman's mouth and that's why this scares me. Because there were a log of Senators and Congressman subscribed to Stratfor and this is exactly the type of incident that might push them to act.
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