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Atom was archived today

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Re: Atom was archived today

#441

Post by oblio »

rahen wrote: post #330
oblio wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complexity of any software system built in the 70s and 80s is laughably low compared to the biggest system we build today. Their constraints were much harsher, but the fact of the matter is the end result was rather simple by today's standards. I think just the Bluetooth stack in a modern OS contains as much code as an entire Unix kernel from any time up to 1990 or so.

Don't underestimate the complexity of software built in the seventies either for the business, financial or scientific world. We already had virtual machines, HA, realtime and distributed computing back then. Some code running at CERN or NASA was far more complex than a bluetooth stack, yet was also written with teletypes or ADM-3A style terminals.

I admire what people built with stone tools, but at the end of the day, a modern skyscraper is a marvel of complex engineering with no rival in that world.

I'm not saying that NASA or CERN people were dumb or anything, they were probably smarter than the average dev today. But even a genius can only go so far with limited tools.

An elite slinger from the Roman times will probably lose at least 8/10 against a Russian mobilized soldier with 2 weeks of training, armed with an AK-47.

That's how progress works, we both learn ourselves, and more than that, we make powerful and accessible tools.

Re: Atom was archived today

#442

Post by ParetoOptimal »

mgaunard wrote: post #381
rtpg wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a generic interface which also helps with many capabilities, including proper refactoring, formatting, and the like. Since VSCode does so much through it, basically all nontrivial interaction with the code base can also be used in other editors. A far cry from the days of sublime text’s regex-based autocomplete

Except it only works for trivial languages.

What languages do you consider "non-trivial"?

Re: Atom was archived today

#443

Post by wokwokwok »

opan wrote: post #400
wokwokwok wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s not. It’s just free. What people mean when they say “I can’t believe how good this is” is: “I can’t believe how good this is for something I got for free” That’s not engineering excellence. It’s just engineering; being given away as a loss leader. Vscode is good and well maintained, but that’s because a lot of money is being spent making it so. Enjoy it; there’s no harm in taking money people are giving awa…

Vim and Emacs are free. This seems like the norm to me.

Yes, and when was the last time a large room of new developers told you how amazed they were at how great Emacs was? How easy it was to setup vim plugins? How seemless the experience was between Mac and windows and Linux?

Literally never would be my answer.

People like vscode because of the time and effort that has been spent making it friendly and approachable, yet still powerful.

Those are not just things that magically happen.

They didn’t happen because it’s free.

Those are things you get from a paid product team that prioritises issues, ux, etc. and a company that pays to implement them.

Re: Atom was archived today

#444

Post by zeveb »

satvikpendem wrote: post #186
kuratkull wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're talking about professional tools i'm not sure if setting it up as fast as possible is the best productivity comparison. All good tools need getting to know them, and setting things up yourself (eg. in vim) means you also know how to fix any issues that pop up in the future. Installing a vscode plugin for playing around is great, but it doesn't automatically make you a professional and stable production envir…

On the contrary, working in a professional environment, almost no one I know is using vim or Emacs seriously day to day for coding. We all use VSCode because that is a tool that just works for our team and company. Having a unified tool set works wonders for group productivity, no more messing around with some employees not having a certain package and others needing to customize their vim configs. No, everything sim…

> Having a unified tool set works wonders for group productivity, no more messing around with some employees not having a certain package and others needing to customize their vim configs.

Completely agree: the entire company should be on a common, future-proof, extensible, free platform: Emacs!

I honestly don’t understand why anyone bothers wasting effort on any other editor.

Re: Atom was archived today

#445

Post by kingboss »

kajaktum wrote: post #146

Can someone tell me why OSes can't do what browsers do? It seems to me that browsers are the OS of today so why not just skip the middleman and make it first class? It seems to be a layer that exists solely because the 3 competing OSes is incompatible and browsers just happen to be compatible (for how long?).

Do you even know what an OS is? How can you ask this question? Who will communicate with the hardware?

Re: Atom was archived today

#446

Post by wvh »

p-e-w wrote: post #115
JonathonW wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"VSCode is the greatest productivity tool in the history of software engineering" in a world where vi and emacs exist seems like a bit of an exaggeration, and I'm not even a fan of either (VS Code is my daily driver; I like my GUI editors and I like them to behave like normal apps on the platform I'm running).

Vim and Emacs cannot compare to VSCode when it comes to productivity. With VSCode, you type the name of any programming language in the extension search, click "Install", and you have a world-class development environment for that language ready to go. This is light years ahead of the traditional editors, and saves many hours of time. Not to mention that VSCode has countless other productivity boosters built in which…

But I don't want to click (or not even click) and install random stuff from the internet. It's a security, performance and stability risk. My editor should do what I tell it to, not go solo. While I understand your viewpoints, my priorities are just not aligned.

Re: Atom was archived today

#447

Post by ezfe »

Hendrikto wrote: post #360
gizzlon wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Sublime Text and Merge are great and well worth the price for me :)

I do not really see the point of Sublime Merge. Tried it a few times, but it just seems unnecessary. Is it just for people who want to avoid the CLI?

I own a Sublime Merge license and I've been using it as my only Git client for the past year, at least.

It is faster and exposes what I want to do better than any other Git client I've tried. It's easier than the CLI to use, and so far I've found minimal things it cannot do.

I would recommend it to anyone (unless they're obsessed with all-CLI tools for efficiency, then I guess not)

Re: Atom was archived today

#448

Post by ezfe »

adwn wrote: post #427
ben-schaaf wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple views into a single file have been supported for a long time; I believe as far back as ST2. Currently it's easily accessible by right-clicking on a tab and selecting "Split View".

Yes, but are modifications in one view immediately reflected in the other view, without having to save the file?

Yes

Re: Atom was archived today

#449

Post by zeveb »

squokko wrote: post #224
JonathonW wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"VSCode is the greatest productivity tool in the history of software engineering" in a world where vi and emacs exist seems like a bit of an exaggeration, and I'm not even a fan of either (VS Code is my daily driver; I like my GUI editors and I like them to behave like normal apps on the platform I'm running).

vi and emacs have certainly had more impact to date, but at the current moment VSCode far outcompetes it on every front. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who still prefer vi or emacs, the same way that some people still ride horses despite the fact that cars exist.

I think it’s more like how some people still wear wool and linen despite the fact that polyester and rayon exist. Popularity does not equal quality.

Re: Atom was archived today

#450

Post by _fat_santa »

wink wrote: post #364
p-e-w wrote: post #7

Sad to see this go. I was an early adopter of Atom, and I wrote two extensions for it, one of which while it was still in beta. The Atom developers made some technology choices that in retrospect were ill-advised, CoffeeScript being the worst of them and splitting everything into dozens of packages a close second. They tried to backpedal on both of these later on, but by that time VSCode, with its far superior engine…

I also was an early tester (not adopter) of Atom and I kinda hated it right from the start, but it's been a while and I could never really put my finger on it. I think it always somehow felt sluggish (I'm talking trying out several builds over several months, not just a one-off). But I've also never warmed up to Sublime (which was fast but also felt off). Interestingly the moment I tried out VS Code (many years later…

My journey went Sublime > Atom > VSCode.

I started with Sublime in college and then went to Atom when it came out because it was "Free Sublime". Granted I liked it back then but I was still a college student (had I picked it up now I would have different opinions). Almost as quickly VSCode came out and was a "Better Atom" (I thought VSCode was based on Atom for the longest time).

I wonder what will eventually replace VSCode. Lex Friedman said on his podcast that he sees VSCode as a modern Emacs which I think is a good way of thinking about VSCode.

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