The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 9:46 AM UTC

massysett wrote: post #395

pseingatl wrote: post #127

Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…

The problem is opportunity cost. People invested in Madoff to grow their money. So if I invest $100 in Madoff and ten years later they say “we recovered $90, congrats,” yeah that’s better than nothing. But if I had put that into a legitimate investment, maybe I’d have $180. Other folks got money out of Madoff during his scam years, and the trustee says “I’m taking that money back to pay back others.” So much of crypt…

Post by dcow » Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #732

dcow wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is nothing like the Madoff situation. So you're saying if I withdraw my rightful funds 80 days before a company goes bankrupt, and I use those funds to pay for consumable goods, and consume those goods, that those funds can be clawed back and I am now in debt? That doesn't sound right at all. I also just looked and a preferential transfer would be when the company that goes bankrupt deliberately pays off som…

Not only can it happen like that, it can happen like that even if there is no fraud. Paying off some customers you owe money to would be giving those creditors preference, I don't see how else you could interpret it. Heck, FTX went out of its way to only allow Bahamian citizens to withdraw money at the end, imagining that would be the jury pool deciding their fate soon.

Post by alvah » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 7:24 AM UTC

mrandish wrote: post #294

IncRnd wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people who have obtained fortunes and not become drunk on that. The person who built a liquor store and grew into 20 stores across the city. People who started consulting companies. That immigrant family who scraped and scraped for decades while living above their restaurant. The list is endless, especially compared to the much shorter list of crypto criminals who are drunk on their illusory power a…

> There are so many people who have obtained fortunes and not become drunk on that. Both my perception and my experience from knowing several extremely wealthy 'self-made' people is that the vast majority are fairly quiet, prudent, bright and hard-working people who've managed to make (mostly) good long-term decisions and continue doing so consistently over time. I suspect the "crazy, playboy billionaire" stereotype…

Post by citizenpaul » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 7:28 PM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #298

mindslight wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy of ignoring advice from attorneys has "worked" for Trump and Musk. Welcome to the age of solipsistic anti-expertise, where cult ivating your personal brand matters above all else. It seems like an inevitable condition of deep set post-reality. The interesting question is what develops next.

Fascism. Large flowery fascism.