‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#71

Post by ipaddr » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:42 AM UTC

bobosha wrote: post #66

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

>The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. This is a bogus self-serving argument th…

Perhaps as a: MIT CSAIL Alum, AI+Machine Vision researcher passionate about using technology for societal good.

Not everyone is an MIT Alum and full employment is a dream that could only come from the halls of MIT

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#72

Post by Gh0stRAT » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:43 AM UTC

odysseus wrote: post #46

bibanez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see any systems in place for raising 60 million unwanted children. Would you be able to raise any yourself? There's a gap between understanding the numbers and practice.

That's 60 million children missing over almost 50 years, or ~830K/year. But not all of these were "unwanted". Many women are pressured into abortion by abusive, manipulative, cowardly, and responsibility-shirking men. As for the truly unwanted ones, ~33 million couples in the U.S. are infertile. There are untold thousands of families waiting to adopt. A few of them are listed at https://www.americanadoptions.com/fami…

I mean, if we're talking about what might've been then there are easily a hundred million lives lost each year to menstrual cycles in the US alone. Just gone. Think of how many Einsteins, Mozarts, and Davincis have already been lost to us! Abortion is ^This may sound ridiculous (I certainly think it does) but I think contrasting it with your post is a good thought experiment. Can you see any meaningful difference between your comment and mine? I can't, but I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning if you feel they are different somehow.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#73

Post by ipaddr » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #62

podric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

There might technically be enough Americans who would like to make FAANG-level wages and know how to use a computer and are willing to be an engineer. But there's definitely not enough Americans skilled enough for those jobs. Should FAANG be forced to train Americans rather than hire H1B workers? I don't know. It's a mystery to me they bring people to the US instead of just employ them in other countries in the first…

FAANG are the worst example because they turnaway more applications who can perform those roles then apply. FAANGs shouldn't be allowed H1B workers.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#74

Post by ipaddr » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

google234123 wrote: post #50

Blackstrat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a myth. I worked for a prominent US company that routinely hired non-Americans based on price. There are innumerable ways around the H-1B limits. I quit the company.

Name a name then

Looking for work?

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#75

Post by fh973 » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #62

podric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

There might technically be enough Americans who would like to make FAANG-level wages and know how to use a computer and are willing to be an engineer. But there's definitely not enough Americans skilled enough for those jobs. Should FAANG be forced to train Americans rather than hire H1B workers? I don't know. It's a mystery to me they bring people to the US instead of just employ them in other countries in the first…

I think it's hard to export the SV software engineering culture to foreign offices. You have at most a few people to seed it, but then it's overrun by people with totally different backgrounds that have no idea what it's about.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#76

Post by rramadass » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

>The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs;

Absolutely wrong!

Software Developers and Engineers Shortage in the US: The case for Global Talent: https://www.revelo.com/blog/software-developer-shortage-us

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#77

Post by ipaddr » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

scottjg wrote: post #68

podric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

also consider that we issued more than 350k student visas this year. if the h1-b cap is 85k then we are giving immigrants some of best college-level education in the world and then refusing to hire >75% of them. this has never made sense to me.

Or we force them to marry locally.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#78

Post by gloryjulio » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Uhhh, no? I don't think u realize how big of the gap between the average programming work vs fanng+ companies. Note that I didn't say the quality of the candidates, because I don't think it's hard and most of the ppl can achieve that level if they really tried. But the difference in work is so huge it's basically 2 type of jobs. In typical fanng companies, most regular ppl wont survive. It's highly competitive and require ppl to be able to ramp up repidly. At the same time, u need to maintain high performance all the time. Hard deadlines everywhere. Required to lead different projects and be oncall at the same time.

It's highly competitive and demanding basically the opposite of what ppl going through in the regular school system right now.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#79

Post by rramadass » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:50 AM UTC

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #33

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Ah yes, entitlement all the way down. The American complains that only Americans should be hired despite same skill for cheaper elsewhere. After restricting to Americans, the SF dev complains the company hired a Denver dev who is cheaper for the same skill. Then in Denver, the dev complains they hired from Omaha. Screw the guy from Omaha! Markets are global especially on the internet. If Facebook and Twitter don't co…

>Ah yes, entitlement all the way down.

This is the hard truth but people don't want to face up to it.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#80

Post by richardw » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 6:52 AM UTC

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

You don’t become more competitive by creating limits. China limits what people can read, say or do. US limits movement. It became great through free movement of people and reinvention of society, and creating any limits means you skew the outcome. You limit supply, so prices rise artificially.

Unless you’re Native American, your forefathers and mothers moved to the US at a time where it was easier to do so. That’s a lottery you happened to win and now you want to shut the doors. Your parents helped create the story of success, and that’s how the story will continue. No visas means no Jobs, no Nadella, no Brin, no Tesla, no very many people who create and sustain so many institutions that make you great. Immigration and entrepreneurship are the lifeblood of your story.

Don’t worry so much about slicing the pie. Grow the pie.