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‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

washingtonpost.com

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Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#41

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

kaesar14 wrote: post #34
DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, entitlement all the way down. The American complains that only Americans should be hired despite same skill for cheaper elsewhere. After restricting to Americans, the SF dev complains the company hired a Denver dev who is cheaper for the same skill. Then in Denver, the dev complains they hired from Omaha. Screw the guy from Omaha! Markets are global especially on the internet. If Facebook and Twitter don't co…

Markets are not global. The immigration market is highly regulated and the H1B visa is an abusive system which keeps Indian and Chinese immigrants enslaved to their jobs for up to 20 years while waiting for a green card. It’s a perfect labor group to take advantage of. You want a real global market for international labor? Fix the immigration system.

One of my points was even if you restrict the employee market, customers remains global, revenues remains global. Forcing wage costs higher will eventually make the US uncompetitive.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#42

Post by ConceptJunkie »

feet wrote: post #38
ElevenLathe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true rhetorically (the favorite specific topic being the "dreamers"), but there is no will to fix the H1B program at all by Democratic leadership. The status quo is great for businesses, a big part of their power base. It's not even bad for support from organized labor (though that matters less and less in real elections as union membership has been in decline for decades), since H1Bs are largely employed in n…

It's bigger than that, democrats currently just cry about how bad the Republicans are to get votes and donations then when they're in office they do nothing to fix anything.

That's funny (and I'm not disagreeing with you) because the Republicans are the same.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#43

Post by justanorherhack »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #33
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Ah yes, entitlement all the way down. The American complains that only Americans should be hired despite same skill for cheaper elsewhere. After restricting to Americans, the SF dev complains the company hired a Denver dev who is cheaper for the same skill. Then in Denver, the dev complains they hired from Omaha. Screw the guy from Omaha! Markets are global especially on the internet. If Facebook and Twitter don't co…

Yea and there are Americans that want those jobs to keep the lights on and get paid over 6 figures.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#44

Post by joenot443 »

xwolfi wrote: post #39
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Quoted post unavailable.

Trying to bait people into flame wars is pretty low effort and doesn’t make for interesting discussion, I don’t think. Plenty of other popular sites for that.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#45

Post by [deleted] »

dradtke wrote: post #14
odysseus wrote: post #13

Unpopular opinion, but I'd argue the last ~50 years of legalized abortion, with over 60 million lives lost, also accounts for a large percentage of the missing workforce. (Even more so when you consider the loss of their children and their children's children.) > 18% of the workforce has been wiped out by abortion, and this number will climb to 23% by 2035.^1 > While labor force participation may rise in the short ru…

Declining birth rates as a whole are to blame for this, not just abortion. Plus, legalized abortion helped reduce crime rates. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalize...

[deleted]

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#46

Post by odysseus »

bibanez wrote: post #20
odysseus wrote: post #13

Unpopular opinion, but I'd argue the last ~50 years of legalized abortion, with over 60 million lives lost, also accounts for a large percentage of the missing workforce. (Even more so when you consider the loss of their children and their children's children.) > 18% of the workforce has been wiped out by abortion, and this number will climb to 23% by 2035.^1 > While labor force participation may rise in the short ru…

I can't see any systems in place for raising 60 million unwanted children. Would you be able to raise any yourself? There's a gap between understanding the numbers and practice.

That's 60 million children missing over almost 50 years, or ~830K/year. But not all of these were "unwanted". Many women are pressured into abortion by abusive, manipulative, cowardly, and responsibility-shirking men.

As for the truly unwanted ones, ~33 million couples in the U.S. are infertile. There are untold thousands of families waiting to adopt. A few of them are listed at https://www.americanadoptions.com/family_profile/browse

As for me, I'm raising several children. My wife and I have considered adopting on top of that. I was adopted.

Steve Jobs was adopted. So was John Hancock. Nelson Mandela. Leo Tolstoy. Ray Liotta. Simone Biles.

In terms of economic and societal impact, I'd wager somewhere in those 60 million missing children, there were a few hundred kids that could have grown up and made a real positive impact on our lives. We'll never know how many diseases would have been cured by now, or Olympic medals won. Millions of lives. Just gone.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#47

Post by pyuser583 »

bojan wrote: post #15
odysseus wrote: post #13

Unpopular opinion, but I'd argue the last ~50 years of legalized abortion, with over 60 million lives lost, also accounts for a large percentage of the missing workforce. (Even more so when you consider the loss of their children and their children's children.) > 18% of the workforce has been wiped out by abortion, and this number will climb to 23% by 2035.^1 > While labor force participation may rise in the short ru…

Out of those 45 million, how many of those unwanted kids would end up getting enough education that they can participate in a modern knowledge economy? And how many would end up needing society's support to make ends meet? Restricted abortion leads to the availability of plentiful cheap, low-level labor, but mostly not the sort of labor that the modern economy really needs.

Those are interesting question, but what are the answers?

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#48

Post by j-bos »

podric wrote: post #31
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

Perhaps it is a myth with no basis. That said, increased supply decreasing demand is usually the null case, yes? So I'd want to see evidence that additional workers do not supress wages.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#49

Post by luma »

podric wrote: post #31
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

Or 20 years of wage suppression worked and now they're at parity.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#50

Post by google234123 »

Blackstrat wrote: post #40
podric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

It’s not a myth. I worked for a prominent US company that routinely hired non-Americans based on price. There are innumerable ways around the H-1B limits. I quit the company.

Name a name then
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