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‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

washingtonpost.com

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Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#31

Post by podric »

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot.

The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality.

In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/

The US creates several million new jobs each year on average, and the H-1B cap is 85K, which is an order of magnitude less than the number of jobs created per year. In order for the H-1B program to meaningfully impact the US labor market, the H-1B cap needs to be increased significantly.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#33

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Ah yes, entitlement all the way down. The American complains that only Americans should be hired despite same skill for cheaper elsewhere. After restricting to Americans, the SF dev complains the company hired a Denver dev who is cheaper for the same skill. Then in Denver, the dev complains they hired from Omaha. Screw the guy from Omaha!

Markets are global especially on the internet. If Facebook and Twitter don't compete on a global scale, TikTok will eat the lunch you believe you are entitled to.

The entire article discusses that immigration is needed and American's don't want those jobs. I don't need a team of the most skilled and experienced PhDs. A big portion of my team are just reliable people who can keep the lights on.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#34

Post by kaesar14 »

DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote: post #33
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

Ah yes, entitlement all the way down. The American complains that only Americans should be hired despite same skill for cheaper elsewhere. After restricting to Americans, the SF dev complains the company hired a Denver dev who is cheaper for the same skill. Then in Denver, the dev complains they hired from Omaha. Screw the guy from Omaha! Markets are global especially on the internet. If Facebook and Twitter don't co…

Markets are not global. The immigration market is highly regulated and the H1B visa is an abusive system which keeps Indian and Chinese immigrants enslaved to their jobs for up to 20 years while waiting for a green card. It’s a perfect labor group to take advantage of. You want a real global market for international labor? Fix the immigration system.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#35

Post by TexanFeller »

podric wrote: post #31
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

> The US creates several million new jobs each year on average, and the H-1B cap is 85K, which is an order of magnitude less than the number of jobs created per year.

H-1B hires are not evenly distributed across all job types. A large fraction of them going to particular industries, like is seen in big tech, could move the needle in those industries.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#36

Post by throwaway2729 »

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

You are correct except that it's L1 visa driving wages down. H1Bs are typically employed at FAANG and are paid top of the market. Instead of a lottery system, they should use it for top of the market jobs or proven specialization like published papers in that field or certifications.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#37

Post by mikem170 »

odysseus wrote: post #13

Unpopular opinion, but I'd argue the last ~50 years of legalized abortion, with over 60 million lives lost, also accounts for a large percentage of the missing workforce. (Even more so when you consider the loss of their children and their children's children.) > 18% of the workforce has been wiped out by abortion, and this number will climb to 23% by 2035.^1 > While labor force participation may rise in the short ru…

That assumes that people would not have changed their habits around sex and birth control. I've heard this is what has been happening in states that recently restricted abortion. Also there are illegal abortions, which have always been a thing. Women aren't stupid, they have always had options if they don't want to have kids. Birth rates go down everywhere with more urbanization and education. It doesn't pay to have kids like it used to when we were all farmers.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#38

Post by feet »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #30
ferrumfist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> democrats are only for it just enough to foil the republicans Absolutely not. Modern Democrats are neoliberals to the extreme. Neoliberals are very pro-immigration.

That's true rhetorically (the favorite specific topic being the "dreamers"), but there is no will to fix the H1B program at all by Democratic leadership. The status quo is great for businesses, a big part of their power base. It's not even bad for support from organized labor (though that matters less and less in real elections as union membership has been in decline for decades), since H1Bs are largely employed in n…

It's bigger than that, democrats currently just cry about how bad the Republicans are to get votes and donations then when they're in office they do nothing to fix anything.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#39

Post by xwolfi »

honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

No post body was provided.

Re: ‘Two years of lost immigration’ is responsible for half of missing workforce

#40

Post by Blackstrat »

podric wrote: post #31
honestduane wrote: post #24

The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them. And the number of Americans I know who wo…

The idea that H-1B workers suppress US wages is a harmful myth that gets thrown around HN a lot. The study that supports the claim that the H-1B program suppresses US tech wages is about 20 years old, and no longer reflects the current reality. In fact, a 2017 Glassdoor study found that the wages of H-1B workers were 2.8% higher than their American counterparts: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/h1b-workers/ The US…

It’s not a myth. I worked for a prominent US company that routinely hired non-Americans based on price. There are innumerable ways around the H-1B limits. I quit the company.
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