6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

Post by presidentender » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

drewrv wrote: post #57

funkah wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen Hofstadter try to summarize the idea conveyed in the book? He really is not able to, and so I think the book pretty much boils down to "hey here's a bunch of weird/cool stuff." Which is not such a bad thing. But for me, there was a point where I had to stop reading, I think when he tries to independently derive propositional logic or something like that? (It has been a while.) I just remember findi…

He's pretty explicit that the idea is: consciousnesses is a strange loop, and since it's sometimes impossible to understand a system from within that system, we may never be able to understand the human mind because we are trapped within human minds.

Post by yahelc » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 5:32 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #36

jasonwocky wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing trees takes CO2 out of the atmosphere? I think you've got this backwards.

Growing trees to make them into timber, pulp, etc. takes CO2 out of the atmosphere. As long as you're not growing them to burn them, it's one of the most effective CO2 sequestration methods we have. 77% of tree usage in the US is for timber and pulpwood. Fast-growing species are planted and harvested over a 10-20 year cycle so that as each section is cut down and replanted, another section is maturing. It's both sust…

Post by tseabrooks » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 6:12 PM UTC

jmilloy wrote: post #64

tseabrooks wrote: post #41

This seems like one of the first great "Social" ideas I've ever heard. For me, personally of course, facebook, foursquare, social shopping, etc all solve problems I don't have. However a sort of online book group is something that I might like and would solve a real problem I do have. It may be to niche to make a company out of. That said, what sorts of things would a site (platform?) need in order to be successful a…

I think forums have served this problem for over a decade. Voting systems on comments and nested comments like slashdot and here and reddit are just an improvement on forums. So what are these formats lacking for you? (I agree they could probably be improved by specific changes for online book groups)

   -Real time comm needs to be archived in a readable form

   -When we get enough signups and a leader we schedule a start date.

   -A way for slow people or later people to use the site without spoilers

   -A way for two groups doing the same book at different speeds to work together.

Post by spinonethird » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 6:48 PM UTC

haberman wrote: post #53

presidentender wrote: post #38

I loved GEB, but since reading it (and jumping in and re-reading parts here and there when it strikes my fancy) I've come to the conclusion that it's a perfectly laid Dunning-Kruger trap which specifically ensnares people like me. I am not as smart as Hofstadter, and I know it, and so I'll never be sure I've actually understood the meat of the message. I think I get strange loops, recursion, self-reference and the me…

I had the opposite reaction: I lost faith in the book's analytical process only ten pages in, when Hofstadter claimed that Bach's canon was a "strange loop" simply because it modulates to a higher key. Sure, if you keep doing this you can get to the same key, an octave higher , but that's only because pitch itself is periodic, repeating the same notes every octave. There's nothing unique or mysterious about Bach's ca…

Post by redthrowaway » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 6:54 PM UTC

preek wrote: post #23

redthrowaway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pdf on tpb, so there should be a legitimate version somewhere.

I have the original as hardcover, but also wanted to be able to read on the go on the iPad, so I downloaded the ebook. It's a scan with OCR. Unfortunately the OCR is bad on many parts of the page - random occurences of %, ' and other characters are common. Also some words are totally unreadable. Overall, I still read sometimes on the iPad, but having to go back to the hardcover if I'm totally lost.