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Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

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Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#41

Post by hammock »

gfodor wrote: post #22
kyleyeats wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before all that let's discontinue our demonization of the unvaccinated.

Where is that still happening? (Genuine q)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05607-y

> We find evidence in support of discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated in [nineteen different countries including the US]

> Findings suggest that...the vaccinated react with discriminatory attitudes against...the unvaccinated. Elites and the vaccinated general public appealed to moral obligations to increase COVID-19 vaccine uptake but the present findings suggest that discriminatory attitudes including support for the removal of fundamental rights simultaneously emerged

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#43

Post by chedca21 »

klipt wrote: post #21
gfodor wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit here. If vaccines save 10,000 people and kill 10 people, that's still a net positive. That's the kind of moral calculus public health has to deal with all the time.

[dead]

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#44

Post by fein »

gfodor wrote: post #22
kyleyeats wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before all that let's discontinue our demonization of the unvaccinated.

Where is that still happening? (Genuine q)

In the USA on a government level? No idea, at least it isn't a thing around where I live, but I also sit at home and get paid to write software. No idea what applying for jobs in some industries might look like.

On the social level? People have fractured families over it and/or forced(you can't see your grand children unless you're vaxxed, for example)/coerced family members into getting it despite their otherwise refusal. I still know people who won't let non vaccinated people come over for events. It's a much rarer thing now, but the damage has been done.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#45

Post by lame-robot-hoax »

whitepaint wrote: post #32
klipt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit here. If vaccines save 10,000 people and kill 10 people, that's still a net positive. That's the kind of moral calculus public health has to deal with all the time.

> If vaccines save 10,000 people and kill 10 people, that's still a net positive. You need to take age into account, no?

In this study the ages ranged from 46 to 75 For those who died.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#46

Post by thewizardofaus »

chedca21 wrote: post #19
puffoflogic wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

But wait 15 minutes to see if your child gets anaphylaxis from them. We could have tested for allergy before giving the vaccine but its more convenient to have you wait around after. Don't worry if you experience allergic shock we have epinephrine on standby. It might not work and its use is associated with Alzheimer's onset but don't worry! Safe and effective!

"But wait 15 minutes to see if your child gets anaphylaxis from them. We could have tested for allergy before giving the vaccine but its more convenient to have you wait around after."

The waiting period of 15 minutes after a vaccine has always been recommended. It's standard medical recommendation and safety.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#47

Post by brodouevencode »

klipt wrote: post #21
gfodor wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit here. If vaccines save 10,000 people and kill 10 people, that's still a net positive. That's the kind of moral calculus public health has to deal with all the time.

(I don't disagree with your sentiment, fwiw)

For 1.5 years we had the notion of "1 death is 1 too many" shoved down our throats at every turn to justify some pretty heinous encroachments on personal freedom.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#48

Post by burner990 »

scarmig wrote: post #18
danhak wrote: post #8

We coerced young, low-risk people into receiving these treatments despite known side effects on pain of losing their education or employment or being able to enter privately-owned establishments (irrespective of the wishes of the owners of those privately-owned establishments). We justified it with the specious argument that they were putting other people at undue risk by remaining unvaccinated. We claimed that vacci…

Why should the companies be held liable? This was a government project enforced by the gun; the companies didn't force anyone to take their vaccines, and there's not a way they could have made them meaningfully safer given the timelines.

My employer wouldn't let me go to the office or even any offsites or outdoor actives (i.e. a picnic) until very recently. (Despite my approved religious exemption and "requiring" all employees to work in the office).

If that isn't coercion to take an experimental vaccine i don't know what is.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#49

Post by gfodor »

AlexandrB wrote: post #34
gfodor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not jumping the gun - the net deaths can be negative yet it is still the case that what we witnessed was a massive, arguably unprecedented failure of medical ethics, the defense of body autonomy, the scientific process, the culture of healthy skepticism and debate, and basic decency and opposition to dehumanization campaigns. All due to fear and righteousness, as it often is.

If the numbers come out that net deaths are sharply negative, do you think we should similarly condemn those that spread fear and misinformation about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine? Or are "skeptics" immune from repercussions for their actions in this case?

The former group has been condemned, banned, ostracized, and dehumanized. To the degree any of them were acting on bad faith or in violation of their oaths, yes they should be condemned.

But the deepest crimes lie elsewhere, by those in power who coerced others into taking drugs they did not want, who used ends-justify-the-means reasoning to violate ethics as physicians or public health officials, and who now continue to try to suppress, deflect, and gaslight us from recognizing the real events which actually occurred and which we are morally obligated to correct for our children.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#50

Post by kaio »

Key takeaway:

>>The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29].

I hope the research continues to make it even more safe.

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