351–360 of 414 posts
I don't know any javascript, but is it really that bad of a language that you need new libraries every day and workarounds so that you don't have to write it?
I am burnt out (but recovering!) with web dev and htmx is what I am using for my project. Django, DRF, Postgres, tailwind and HTMX. I am so tired of all the front end frameworks and all the complexity that gets added. At some point I think you need it and you get returns from it but hearing more people in the industry recognize and talk about how JS everything isn't always the answer gives me hope. I like what HTMX h…
How do you integrate tailwind and django? As far as I know (which isn't very much), tailwind encourages the use of "components" which comes very naturally with other frontend frameworks. But with django, do you put each component into a template, like ` ` and `{% include "button.html" %}` when you use a button?
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Can you speak of your experience with liveviewjs? I've been looking at it, and htmx, and everything else, over the past few months for a heavily-interactive frontend project I need to start. I'm an experienced ios dev, but in at the deepens with all this js frontend stuff. There are so many options! The one thing I'm sure of is I don't want to use react.
The only real advice I can offer is: Try to implement an example of the most complicated UI interaction that you have in your (conceptual) application in both and then decide. Development-by-random-recommendation is usually a recipe for disaster.
Things like efficient updates of large tables of data in the browser that was constructed out of multiple database tables… things like order + shipping status + customer shipping address… lots of day to day business stuff is like this and while you can manage to do it with just HTML and forms with or without JavaScript … it’s very easy to fall into performance traps between big form data submissions, potentially tricky JavaScript loops to shrink the data submission and backend N+1 query updates… it gets pretty tricky sometimes.
The point is the most complicated part of your UI may not be the most visually complex part. It can be just a simple data grid or html table… it can be the intersex of your requirements around the data being handled, the workflow/interactions on the data, and the performance/usability requirements of the users (offline editing + sync on reconnect basically requires a SPA)
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Do you know off hand how much JavaScript your pages are including now versus when you were using ClojureScript/React? I ask because I know ClojureScript is built on Google Closure which has pretty advanced dead code elimination (and typically for React functionality people use libraries like reagant that take advantage of this - I think?). Presumably with htmx users are having to download the whole htmx lib.
The JavaScript we use is now much, much less. Actually, most times we just sprinkle in a bit of hyperscript for the times we need something a bit more dynamic than plain htmx. _hyperscript is a separate library by the same author that provides an HTML type of scripting in the attribute tags. Still, in general, because we are generating fragments of hypermedia (HTML) on the server and returning that to target elements…
I am burnt out (but recovering!) with web dev and htmx is what I am using for my project. Django, DRF, Postgres, tailwind and HTMX. I am so tired of all the front end frameworks and all the complexity that gets added. At some point I think you need it and you get returns from it but hearing more people in the industry recognize and talk about how JS everything isn't always the answer gives me hope. I like what HTMX h…
I'm a huge proponent of Tailwind. What I tell people is to ignore their gut impression and just try it out. Equivalently, my first impression of HTMX is that I kind of hate it. But I could see it being similar to Tailwind, where you just need to try it out and then it'll click. Is that fair to say?
Maybe it's not for everyone, but it really is worth a try, with an open mind.
> It's worth mentioning that, if you prefer, you can use the data- prefix when using htmx
Why is this worth mentioning and what difference does adding the prefix make?
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Spoiler warning: it doesn't. Unless you only consider the happiest path, as in "I develop on localhost with zero latency, 100% uptime, and my backend validation logic perfectly matches my frontend policies" (and probably a lot more other "if"s and "only"s).
this is an interesting comment. so it has been sold to me like that. Could you talk about where it fails. alpinejs does make the claim that it is a "better jquery". What is the development experience here? especially for backend teams (python, java, whatever) who are now also building HTMX.
If the HTTP request that htmx has made returns a status code >= 400 or times out then the response will not be swapped into the body.
There are several events that htmx fires, once of which can catch `responseError` [1] and you can write some Javascript to handle it according to your requirements (throw a toast, swap anyway by setting `evt.detail.shouldSwap = true`.
In a project I'm working on we use htmx to load the content for modals, so we have small handlers on htmx events to display the modal whilst the request is being made, put a spinner indicator in the modal body to show the user something is happening and then swap the body in once the request has completed.
We've also used `HX-Trigger` response header [2] which htmx helpfully catches and allows us to easily hook onto, we've got ones to display a toast notification, hide open modals, refresh content divs, untick bulk action checkboxes, etc.
All in, our project probably has around 200 lines of Javascript for the different event handlers we do, so it doesn't eliminate the need to write any JS, but it's significantly reduced and is pretty much all event handlers.
I am burnt out (but recovering!) with web dev and htmx is what I am using for my project. Django, DRF, Postgres, tailwind and HTMX. I am so tired of all the front end frameworks and all the complexity that gets added. At some point I think you need it and you get returns from it but hearing more people in the industry recognize and talk about how JS everything isn't always the answer gives me hope. I like what HTMX h…
I'm a huge proponent of Tailwind. What I tell people is to ignore their gut impression and just try it out. Equivalently, my first impression of HTMX is that I kind of hate it. But I could see it being similar to Tailwind, where you just need to try it out and then it'll click. Is that fair to say?
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Spoiler warning: it doesn't. Unless you only consider the happiest path, as in "I develop on localhost with zero latency, 100% uptime, and my backend validation logic perfectly matches my frontend policies" (and probably a lot more other "if"s and "only"s).
this is an interesting comment. so it has been sold to me like that. Could you talk about where it fails. alpinejs does make the claim that it is a "better jquery". What is the development experience here? especially for backend teams (python, java, whatever) who are now also building HTMX.
Alpinejs is indeed the successor to Jquery.
React forces you to think like how its designers view the world.
While alpinejs does not really interfere with your workflow. That's a huge sell for team like mine where we are working with legacy projects and devs of various levels of XP. We can get a jnr dev up and running in a week flat.
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this is an interesting comment. so it has been sold to me like that. Could you talk about where it fails. alpinejs does make the claim that it is a "better jquery". What is the development experience here? especially for backend teams (python, java, whatever) who are now also building HTMX.
> Could you talk about where it fails If the HTTP request that htmx has made returns a status code >= 400 or times out then the response will not be swapped into the body. There are several events that htmx fires, once of which can catch `responseError` [1] and you can write some Javascript to handle it according to your requirements (throw a toast, swap anyway by setting `evt.detail.shouldSwap = true`. In a project…
so would you say that one of the first things a htmx based project should do is handle all the error conditions ? like all the 40x and 50x ? and stuff like your modal thinggy ?
how do you develop the js here ? do you setup a different nodejs/npmjs toolchain. or do the jqueryish development of edit->browser reload ?