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A software change allowed FTX to use client money

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Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#371
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is money. Debt is money from the future. Seems you don't understand.

I'm just gonna reply to myself rather than this thread of 'intellectuals' that have latched on thinking they're super woke about 'money'. This is really sad. Especially the guy who 'advised' to stay away from crypto. I don't need advice to know it's for idiots

Since this is a pointed reply to my own comment, I'm just going to say that I'm anti-crypto, for the record.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#372

The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is. They aren't coming from a baseline assumption that their job is to protect and interests and the money of their clients. Traditional banks, for the most part, have DNA built around protecting customer interests and customer money. Crypto companies have none of that attitude - behind every one of…

Be honest with yourself, do you really believe every single crypto company acts without integrity and ethics? If so, it's clear you haven't familiarized yourself with the whole industry. Plenty of crypto companies have strong controls around security, consumer protection, compliance, etc.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. Not quite the same level, but in my early days working on a payment system, a request from the product team was to create a summary screen where customer service reps could see payment histories AND THE CC INFORMATION USED FOR THE PAYMENTS. In my mind, there was no way that would end well, so I strenuously…

Do you mean not a conversation in the sense that we wouldn’t think of doing it, or in the sense that we wouldn’t think of questioning it?

Yeah, I definitely meant the former. We (hopefully?) wouldn't even think of doing it.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#374

The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is. They aren't coming from a baseline assumption that their job is to protect and interests and the money of their clients. Traditional banks, for the most part, have DNA built around protecting customer interests and customer money. Crypto companies have none of that attitude - behind every one of…

Be honest with yourself, do you really believe every single crypto company acts without integrity and ethics? If so, it's clear you haven't familiarized yourself with the whole industry. Plenty of crypto companies have strong controls around security, consumer protection, compliance, etc.

Wasn't that what people said about FTX before now, too?

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#375

> Only Singh, Bankman-Fried and a few other top FTX and Alameda executives knew about the exemption in the code, according to three former executives briefed on the matter. A digital dashboard used by staff to track FTX customer assets and liabilities was programmed so it would not take into account that Alameda had withdrawn the client funds, according to two of the people and a screenshot of the portal that Reuters…

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. Strange comment. Are the engineers who made the code change responsible?? Do engineers need to be lawyers and financial gurus too, and evaluate every ticket they are given for possible illegality in every country the software is used??

[deleted]

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse if you are found to be breaking the law. So if you think what you are doing is possibly in violation of the law you better bone up or ask a lawyer for a statement on letterhead that what you are doing is ok.

So every dev needs to also be an expert lawyer and financier??? OK.

If you want to write code for a financial institution? You bet you should be expected to know what you are doing, and understand there are relevant laws, and also not violate those laws. It's not hard. I know the relevant laws to my domain of job.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you program the software to allow your friend to obtain drugs from the hospital without deducting it from inventory so nobody would notice?

Different scenarios are different.

But not that different.

You're telling me a software engineer could make a change that allowed spending money a company could not legally spend and he had no idea about it? Come on. That is preposterous. At any respectable company alarm bells would be going off everywhere and fingers would all start pointing to that change. Theres virtually 0 chance that there was not intent.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#378

I'm not sure Singh should be held accountable. He is a programmer. He coded what his boss told him to. This isn't like coding a bomb to kill people, where the programmer clearly has an ethical choice. Singh was an employee, whose bosses had the job of ensuring what they asked him to do was legal, and he was not obliged to consider the ethics or legality with full view of the "big picture" nor even know or take the "b…

Wrong reply

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#379
Programmers should have a moral and defensible right to object to something that severely harms those who use their systems. Saying he was just doing what he was told fails to account for the fact that had he said no and flagged this as immoral, some customers may have their cash… maybe. Worst comes to worst he is fired but working at that level you’ll find a job in 5 mins and have sufficient capital to weather the storm. I’m a strong believer that ethics and basic philosophy should be taught as part of a cs curriculum. For precisely events like this.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Why do we keep Apple responsible for Foxconn's labor practices? Isn't Foxconn an independent company after all? The reason is because we don't want evil to spread by externalizing the responsibility to third parties.

Which specific engineers or individuals from Apple did you have in mind?

The ones that specify foxconn parts
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