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SvelteKit 1.0

svelte.dev

131–140 of 296 posts

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#131
post #27

This is how I move fast and break nothing. By having fullstack type-safety from database all the way to the frontend with auto-completion. My current stack: + SvelteKit (could be Next, Nuxt, Solid or any other TypeScript framework) + tRPC (typed calls between frontend and backend, https://trpc.io ) + trpc-sveltekit (glues SvelteKit and tRPC, https://github.com/icflorescu/trpc-sveltekit ) + Prisma (ORM, https://www.pr…

Same, but with ASP.NET (which produces an OpenAPI specification) + Entity Framework on the server, React + TypeScript on the client (which consume that specification through openapi-generator). https://github.com/OpenAPITools/openapi-generator I chuckle every time I read claims about Go (or whatever) being amazingly productive. I don't think it's possible to beat this stack with regards to both productivity and ease…

Could you go into a little bit more detail?

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#132
post #94
post #66

There is a plethora of javascript frameworks: React, Vue, Svelte, Remix, etc. If I know nothing about front-end development, and would like to learn one that is: - Intuitive - Suitable for small projects as well as large projects. - That is here to stay, i.e. either adopted by many companies, or its adoption curve is going up. Which one should I pick? Would Svelte be a good choice?

If it's for your career: React + (Next or Remix). Maybe Angular or Vue if the specific company you want uses it If it's for yourself: Svelte. Amazing community, very likely to be here in 5 years, but I don't think it's been proven to work at large scales yet. If you want to twist everything upside down and see the full potential of what front-end dev work could be: Qwik or Elm (imho)

What would be an example of large scale for a front-end app or site?

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it forces you to use node js, or do I read it wrong? Can we get a streamlined js framework that is just about the frontend and let’s you use whatever backend language you want? I know there is react, vue and angular but they seem so bloated

Nodejs is only needed in the development phase.

That's true if you're developing a SPA or static site with SvelteKit. However, there are APIs that involve Node being run in production, i.e. the authors of SvelteKit envision it being used to build hybrid apps that involve front-end JS and Node.js server/s.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#134
I enjoy Svelte a lot and congrats on the release. However the job market for Svelte seems really weak, at least for US dev salaries. I hope Sveltekit increases adoption, as it's a nice alternative to NextJS

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#135
post #94
post #66

There is a plethora of javascript frameworks: React, Vue, Svelte, Remix, etc. If I know nothing about front-end development, and would like to learn one that is: - Intuitive - Suitable for small projects as well as large projects. - That is here to stay, i.e. either adopted by many companies, or its adoption curve is going up. Which one should I pick? Would Svelte be a good choice?

If it's for your career: React + (Next or Remix). Maybe Angular or Vue if the specific company you want uses it If it's for yourself: Svelte. Amazing community, very likely to be here in 5 years, but I don't think it's been proven to work at large scales yet. If you want to twist everything upside down and see the full potential of what front-end dev work could be: Qwik or Elm (imho)

Svelte will be also the career choice in couple of years, like Angular was the career choice when React launched (although they have only 3 years between them).

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#136
post #27

This is how I move fast and break nothing. By having fullstack type-safety from database all the way to the frontend with auto-completion. My current stack: + SvelteKit (could be Next, Nuxt, Solid or any other TypeScript framework) + tRPC (typed calls between frontend and backend, https://trpc.io ) + trpc-sveltekit (glues SvelteKit and tRPC, https://github.com/icflorescu/trpc-sveltekit ) + Prisma (ORM, https://www.pr…

Same, but with ASP.NET (which produces an OpenAPI specification) + Entity Framework on the server, React + TypeScript on the client (which consume that specification through openapi-generator). https://github.com/OpenAPITools/openapi-generator I chuckle every time I read claims about Go (or whatever) being amazingly productive. I don't think it's possible to beat this stack with regards to both productivity and ease…

> I chuckle every time I read claims about Go (or whatever) being amazingly productive

You can get the same'ish with Ent and Atlas

I am very slowly building a big glue between DB and front-end and making it pluggable into their underlying libs and native libs

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#137
post #27

This is how I move fast and break nothing. By having fullstack type-safety from database all the way to the frontend with auto-completion. My current stack: + SvelteKit (could be Next, Nuxt, Solid or any other TypeScript framework) + tRPC (typed calls between frontend and backend, https://trpc.io ) + trpc-sveltekit (glues SvelteKit and tRPC, https://github.com/icflorescu/trpc-sveltekit ) + Prisma (ORM, https://www.pr…

How are you liking Prisma compared to a pure SQL approach?

I'm not the person you ask, but we use fullstack Typescript in our dev department. We're a weird mix of a green energy company and an investment bank, so inhouse development is very small-scale, and this means you share resources. Using one language for everything helps with this, since the one person who is really good at React can take a vacation or a sickday without being glued to a laptop since everyone else can also work on the front-end even though it's not their daily thing (and vice versa). More than that though it lets us do things like code reviews, troubleshoot solutions and generally work together really well, even though we're working on very different projects. It also lets us build libraries that can be used for everything. One example is our ODATA query and client library, which makes it incredibly easy to debug issues related to it, because everyone uses it.

Anyway, the one place where Typescript isn't great in the fullstack approach is the Database stuff. We used Prismo for the better part of a year, until we eventually moved on to Mikro-orm which has been great so far.

I'm personally not a big fan of OOP or "over architecture", because I've seen how bad it can go too many times. Instead I favour functional programming and keeping things as simple as possible, even having "almost duplicate" code once in a while. So with this in mind, it may strike you as odd that we moved from Prisma to Mirko-orm, but Prisma just clashes with the way we want an ORM to work in so many ways.

Maybe this is by design. Prisma doesn't want to be a "real" ORM after all, but things like having to put everything in a single schema file is bothersome. Yes, you can put it in different files and then cat them together, but that leads to other issues. Like the VSC Prisma extension highlights not working outside the main Prisma.Schema file. More than that though. We like to have "ID, UpdatedAt, UpdatedBy, CreatedAt" sort of things on basically all our models, and since Prisma doesn't have the inheritance I almost never use, that means you need to duplicate it soooo many times. It's also hard to write generic methods for basic CRUD stuff because of the way Prisma uses the Prisma Client Classes it auto-generates to operate. On top of that, migrations can't go backwards in Prisma.

Some of these issues are on the Prisma road map, others aren't, and you're always going to bang heads with an ORM, but Prisma just didn't feel as mature as it's extremely excellent documentation (and marketing) might lead you to believe in my experience.

I can certainly see myself using it again, once their roadmap is a little further ahead though.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#138

There is so much "let me just see if this works..." tap tapppy tap .... "no... NO WAY... OMG IT WORKED!" with Svelte. Very little surface area. It embraces your knowledge of plain ole CSS/JS/HTML and empowers you with reactivity and a means of if being able to add motion to your ui. Newbs and Pros alike can build fast with it. That speed + reactivity allows your software to better keep up with your converstaions that…

Except it forces you to use node js, or do I read it wrong? Can we get a streamlined js framework that is just about the frontend and let’s you use whatever backend language you want? I know there is react, vue and angular but they seem so bloated

We are using SvelteKit frontend with Python backend (Pyramid + SQLAlchemy). When I started the project, I considered doing Python backend + templated HTML frontend a la Django, but SvelteKit server-side rendering was so good that I decided against this. Before I have done JSP, PHP, Django, Next, React and everything between, so I have some experience to compare. Despite all progress on Node.js backends, they still cannot compete with Python for complex SQL + ORM use cases.

The frontend is open source and available here if someone is interested what a complex SSR heavy SvelteKit application deployment looks like:

http://github.com/tradingstrategy-ai/frontend

The SSR server is a lightweight Node.js web server (Vite), but you can have it nicely along your backend API web server (Pyramid in our case). Both are reverse proxied behind the same domain using Caddy.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#139
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, but with ASP.NET (which produces an OpenAPI specification) + Entity Framework on the server, React + TypeScript on the client (which consume that specification through openapi-generator). https://github.com/OpenAPITools/openapi-generator I chuckle every time I read claims about Go (or whatever) being amazingly productive. I don't think it's possible to beat this stack with regards to both productivity and ease…

This is very backend-centric. It can't compare to a framework like SvelteKit or NEXT or NUXT, where the primary benefit is also shipping your tightly-integrated frontend code to the browser. .NET apps are old school, full refresh apps unless you are also using a separate frontend framework like React or Vue standalone. And that adds a lot of time and overheard. Everything you described in terms of easy migrations and…

They are describing using .NET as an API providing a typed OpenAPI contract (aka swagger).

Nothing about that is “full refresh” and you can use whichever frontend framework you like.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#140
post #46

Sveltekit has been an absolute DREAM to learn and use with my app! Been tracking their 1.0 progress closely and it's been incredible. Sveltekit + TailwindCSS + FastAPI has made it super easy to whip up functionality and have a fine-tuned approach as well. As someone else said, the "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT WAS THAT EASY" is an ongoing sentiment whenever I use it. Looking forward to seeing it grow and gain more popularity

SvelteKit SSR is a very good pair to Python backends, like FastAPI.
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