Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#21

Post by lostlogin » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #11

lostlogin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it more of less frivolous than the time Facebook helped organise a genocide? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

Facebook helped organize it in the same sense that Apple helped organize it when Burmese people use their devices to talk to each other. I understand that HN has a massive hate boner for Facebook, but don't let it cloud your judgment.

No, Facebook’s role was considerably more active than that. The messages that were amplified, the complaints that were ignored and they allowed the organisation of a genocide.

The NYT article covers it quite well but there is no shortage of information on their abysmal performance in the atrocities.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#22

Post by noworriesnate » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

hourago wrote: post #16

> Abrham Amare, a researcher and son of chemistry professor Meareg Amare, said that his father was targeted by a series of threatening posts because he was ethnically Tigrayan. He reported the posts, some of them shared over 50,000 times, to Facebook because they contained his father's address and called for his death. Eight days after the elder Amare was murdered, Facebook finally removed the post, according to the…

I have a friend and an ex-coworker who work at Meta. I've asked them about things like this in the past, their responses have boiled down to something like this:

If Facebook's algorithms reduced millions of micro-aggressions but simultaneously enabled the death of one person, then they're probably still in the green. It's like public policy-making. There are tradeoffs everywhere, and somebody will always draw the short straw.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#23

Post by Minor49er » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:06 PM UTC

hourago wrote: post #16

> Abrham Amare, a researcher and son of chemistry professor Meareg Amare, said that his father was targeted by a series of threatening posts because he was ethnically Tigrayan. He reported the posts, some of them shared over 50,000 times, to Facebook because they contained his father's address and called for his death. Eight days after the elder Amare was murdered, Facebook finally removed the post, according to the…

Interesting how the details of the murder are not disclosed, yet the conclusion is that "Facebook caused the death of a man for money"

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#24

Post by nier » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:06 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #11

lostlogin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it more of less frivolous than the time Facebook helped organise a genocide? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

Facebook helped organize it in the same sense that Apple helped organize it when Burmese people use their devices to talk to each other. I understand that HN has a massive hate boner for Facebook, but don't let it cloud your judgment.

Please explain it to me as if I was a 5 year old. I do not understand the similarities between a communication platform and an ad-supported social network that uses software to maximize user engagement.

From my naive standpoint I feel like when you manipulate people’s attention you should be somewhat liable for what happens as a result of that.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#25

Post by gretch » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

hourago wrote: post #16

> Abrham Amare, a researcher and son of chemistry professor Meareg Amare, said that his father was targeted by a series of threatening posts because he was ethnically Tigrayan. He reported the posts, some of them shared over 50,000 times, to Facebook because they contained his father's address and called for his death. Eight days after the elder Amare was murdered, Facebook finally removed the post, according to the…

Did facebook _cause_ it? Or would it have happened anyway?

Lynchings have happened frequently throughout human history, long before the invention of facebook. Racism and ethnic hatred have always been there.

To me this is like saying 'well the guy who killed him was wearing nike shoes, nike caused his death'. It's pretty clear to me that if he didn't have nike shoes, he would have done the same things wearing any other pair of shoes.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#26

Post by zug_zug » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

I hate meta as much as the next person, but I find this whole line of reasoning farsical and a distraction from the many actually bad things to worry about.

I think there's a huge difference between "inciting hatred" and "not deplatforming racist stuff quickly enough in one case." It's my understanding that meta actively tries to prevent hateful content in over 500 languages.

It's a cool experiment to try to deplatform racist tendencies, but I don't see how you're accountable for failing to catch 100% of cases. I imagine if facebook didn't exist at all (and people were gathering in churches or in the street to organize their racism) we'd see a lot lot less of it being caught and likely more deaths.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#27

Post by aaomidi » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

zug_zug wrote: post #26

I hate meta as much as the next person, but I find this whole line of reasoning farsical and a distraction from the many actually bad things to worry about. I think there's a huge difference between "inciting hatred" and "not deplatforming racist stuff quickly enough in one case." It's my understanding that meta actively tries to prevent hateful content in over 500 languages. It's a cool experiment to try to deplatfo…

For what it’s worth, if Facebook is unable to exist without potentially being a catalyst of hate and genocide then maybe it shouldn’t exist.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb...

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#28

Post by last_responder » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #10

lostlogin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It resulted in death. That seems a key detail. Do you think that aspect matters? It was raised with them, they didn’t act and someone died. They have no responsibility for spreading death threats? If that content is ok, what content is not ok?

The article expressly states that violent content is not allowed and was actively policed. Facebook moderators are not fully omniscient and omnipresent. That is not grounds for a $2 billion lawsuit. That fact that people died is sad, but ultimately immaterial to the arguments here considered.

No post body was provided.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#29

Post by nier » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

zug_zug wrote: post #26

I hate meta as much as the next person, but I find this whole line of reasoning farsical and a distraction from the many actually bad things to worry about. I think there's a huge difference between "inciting hatred" and "not deplatforming racist stuff quickly enough in one case." It's my understanding that meta actively tries to prevent hateful content in over 500 languages. It's a cool experiment to try to deplatfo…

Problem is they are not only giving a platform to racism but also amplifying it because that is what drives engagement and more engagement is necessary to show more ads and that’s good for the bottom line and that makes it possible to pay $2,000,000,000. Facebook simply needs to vanish into thin air.

Re: Facebook owner Meta sued for inciting hatred in Ethiopia

#30

Post by knaik94 » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

Unless there is news about Facebook employees intentionally changing their algorithm to promote violence directly, none of these arguments feel genuine. We're past the point where we can compare the world with and without Faceboook, when a social media site becomes unavailable to a certain group they will go to an alternative, as seen with Parler.

Facebook mining and profiting from harvesting political user data shows a direct conflict of interest between keep data private and making money. When Facebook is used as a platform by hate groups, I can't see how they would meaningfully profit from it. Saying that encouraging or ignoring it would increase userbase is very short sighted, at the bare minimum it would caused the group being targeted to leave.

These situations feel more like the debate of whether ISPs are a public utility and the EARN IT act and section 230. Holding Facebook 100% accountable would set a very dangerous precedent. Facebook is not an entity and without showing hateful posts/comments were highlighted while alternatives were not, this feels like an argument against math.

Popular posts reflect the interests of the vocal population. Assigning morality to the math used in an algorithm is a failure to understand the purpose or function of it. "Inciting" would means the algorithm promoted a hateful post despite the underlying signals saying it shouldn't be promoted.

https://www.culawreview.org/journal/extending-corporate-tort...