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SvelteKit 1.0

svelte.dev

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Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#31

Post by arxpoetica »

oxff wrote: post #14

Why is there a new frontend-whatever-work / tool every week? Database stuff is fairly stable, so is backend stuff. Browser APIs seem stable to me too? Why can't you guys decide that this is how things are best done

SvelteKit is nothing new. It's been kicking around for 2+ years with tons of user satisfaction (and 3 years prior to that under another name), but this is the first major/stable release.

  - https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted-web-frameworks
  - https://2021.stateofjs.com/en-US/libraries/front-end-frameworks/
  - https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1589675637195042817

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#32

Post by pier25 »

pevey wrote: post #20
dimmke wrote: post #9

Congrats to the team for this! I have been building an application in SvelteKit and it's an incredible framework. I really believe it's going to become the dominant front-end framework in the next few years.

I completely agree except that I would say "full stack framework" instead of "frontend framework." Just add a db and you are good to go. I tried it out when building a couple of non-critical internal apps for clients (basic CRUD apps, but with some pretty complex business rules). SvelteKit is beautifully designed. It makes things that used to be a bit of a pain super easy to understand and implement. You can use pret…

> Just add a db and you are good to go

What about validation, CORS, cookies, encrypted sessions, etc? A backend (or full stack) framework should at the very minimum include those kind of things.

It's a major gripe I have with all the new full stack frameworks. The focus is on rendering and dealing with requests but they are quite sparse in bread and butter backend features. Other than routing you're basically on your own.

The community will probably start making third party plugins but I would rather have official plugins I can 100% trust like Fastify does.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#34

Post by kenkunz »

Congratulations to the whole SvelteKit team!

I've been using Svelte / SvelteKit for 1.5 years now – it is without comparison the most enjoyable and productive web f̵r̵a̵m̵e̵w̵o̵r̵k̵ language I've ever used.

I'm lucky enough to work with Svelte / SvelteKit full-time. I'm gratified that the site I help build and maintain is included in the SvelteKit showcase: https://kit.svelte.dev

Trading Strategy: https://tradingstrategy.ai

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#35

Post by anon291 »

oxff wrote: post #14

Why is there a new frontend-whatever-work / tool every week? Database stuff is fairly stable, so is backend stuff. Browser APIs seem stable to me too? Why can't you guys decide that this is how things are best done

As someone who's written both a GUI framework and a database library for Haskell, the answer here is actually really obvious. There's only a small set of algorithms for database query execution, all of which are well understood. Thus, there are best algorithms that you can implement.

On the other hand, there is no correct way to style, animate, interact with, etc a button. The design space for UX is much larger than that of databases, and existing libraries touch maybe a small percentage.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#36

Post by pier25 »

bkeating wrote: post #28

There is so much "let me just see if this works..." tap tapppy tap .... "no... NO WAY... OMG IT WORKED!" with Svelte. Very little surface area. It embraces your knowledge of plain ole CSS/JS/HTML and empowers you with reactivity and a means of if being able to add motion to your ui. Newbs and Pros alike can build fast with it. That speed + reactivity allows your software to better keep up with your converstaions that…

> It embraces your knowledge of plain ole CSS/JS/HTML

Yeah that's one of the things I love about Svelte. It tends to enhance fundamental web knowledge rather than forcing you to think in convoluted ways.

Features like actions put you close to the bare metal so to speak. I use those all the time.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#37

Post by pevey »

pier25 wrote: post #32
pevey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree except that I would say "full stack framework" instead of "frontend framework." Just add a db and you are good to go. I tried it out when building a couple of non-critical internal apps for clients (basic CRUD apps, but with some pretty complex business rules). SvelteKit is beautifully designed. It makes things that used to be a bit of a pain super easy to understand and implement. You can use pret…

> Just add a db and you are good to go What about validation, CORS, cookies, encrypted sessions, etc? A backend (or full stack) framework should at the very minimum include those kind of things. It's a major gripe I have with all the new full stack frameworks. The focus is on rendering and dealing with requests but they are quite sparse in bread and butter backend features. Other than routing you're basically on your…

It's full stack because you write the code that you want to run on the server AND the code that you want to be shipped to the browser both within SK. Not because it does everything. You would want to choose your favorite libraries for those things, e.g., zod is my fave for validation.

Re: SvelteKit 1.0

#38

Post by lairv »

Great news and looking forward to how this goes. I still find it incredible that the frontend javascript ecosystem hasn't found a reliable and productive contender yet, a framework you could be sure would be still relevant without too much changes in 5+ years, something like what Ruby on Rails is for full-stack.

Some would say that React/NextJS has this role but I have to disagree. When using React/NextJS you still have to rely on third party library for routing, state management, querying etc. like React-Query, React-Router, Redux (Next has a router but you still need libraries to do the rest). Some of these libraries change a lot, some become less relevant, new libraries emerge, and in the end when you start a React project you must go through the "library shopping" step.

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