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Female spies of MI6

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Re: Female spies of MI6

#71
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was just short for Quartermaster so it might make sense aside from the Bond reference.

Yeah, has to be the abbreviation for Quartermaster. Even the exasperation of the character in the movies is obviously based on the demeanour of every ageing CQMS in the British Army (he doesn't appear in the Fleming books, where there's only the Q Branch responsible for supply).

There is a little more nuance to it than you've stated here.

A Quartermaster in the British Army is generally a commissioned officer, usually nowadays a Late Entry Officer (a soldier who has achieved the rank of at least Staff Sergeant I think, and then received a commission). Quartermasters are most often the rank of Major, but sometimes I've known them to be Lt Col (Pirbright Army Training Centre has a Lt Col for Quartermaster when I was there).

A Quartermaster is generally in charge of G4 (or J4 in the modern parlance) which is the Logistics staff branch[0].

CQMS (Company Quartermaster Sergeant) is universally a Non-commissioned Officer role. I have only ever seen CQMS of Warrant Officer Class 2 rank. CQMS are responsible for the G4 branch in a company or squadron sized unit.

At a Regimental level you'll often also have an RQMS, universally Warrant Officer Class 1 in my experience but sometimes filled temporarily by a senior WO2. That role was always a bit of a mystery to me, but generally seemed to keep the CQMS's in check and filter a lot of the faff from the QM.

Getting to the point - names...

You'd never call the Quartermaster Q. I'm not sure what would have happened if you did, but I imagine it wouldn't have been pleasant.

You'd always call the CQMS Q, especially if you were Commissioned or SSgt or above. A bold Sgt would get away with it if followed up with a swift sir/ma'am.

The RQMS was RQ, or sir/ma'am to anyone junior.

Add to the mix is the tradition of using "Salutation Surname" (i.e. Mr Brown, Mrs Red) to all Warrant Officers and you have a heady mix of options.

Edging closer to the point - the moniker Q in the books/movie would likely have come about from the abbreviation of CQMS. Which makes sense as Bond, as a 'front line' individual, would almost never actually see the actual Quartermaster, but would interact with his unit's CQMS who would be the one dealing with issuing and accounting for kit.

I believe Bond also had the rank of Commander. It would be customary for that rank to address a CQMS as Q, but never a Quartermaster with that letter.

[0]http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0005.html

Re: Female spies of MI6

#72
post #11

>> When her children were teenagers, Rebecca decided to tell them that she was a spy. “They were super sensible, and I judged the information wasn’t going to be a burden for them, that they wouldn’t tell everybody.” Is Rebecca still working there?

Yeah... not a good idea. That's the type of info you might divulge on your deathbed to adult children. Absolutely insane to tell teens while still working there.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding here.

A key thing to appreciate is that the women in this article, including Rebecca, are not spies. They are civil servants [1] working in a very sensitive area of government. None of them are undercover, or sneaking into Russian bases. It's a sensible precaution for them to keep quiet about what they do, but it's not like their ability to do their job depends on absolute secrecy.

By way of comparison, the US equivalent of Rebecca, who is the deputy to the chief of the service, would be the deputy director of the CIA. The identity of that person is not only public, he has a wikipedia page [2]!

[1] Well, diplomatic servants, but that's basically an alternative flavour of civil servant that exists for historical reasons

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_S._Cohen_(attorney)

Re: Female spies of MI6

#73

How does spying by humans/agents even work these days? I can't imagine a british agent going around spying in North korea, China or even Russia, much less a woman. Cause if you get caught you are going to get tortured into oblivion. Hence most of these 'spies' are on a diplomatic visa to prevent getting disappeared/tortured and therefore most of their movements are easily tracked. Spying as an agent is probably the w…

[deleted]

Re: Female spies of MI6

#75

How does spying by humans/agents even work these days? I can't imagine a british agent going around spying in North korea, China or even Russia, much less a woman. Cause if you get caught you are going to get tortured into oblivion. Hence most of these 'spies' are on a diplomatic visa to prevent getting disappeared/tortured and therefore most of their movements are easily tracked. Spying as an agent is probably the w…

These Spies “Run Agents”: recruit, train, hand hold, interview, debrief and analyse, pay/bribe and present the information from the traitors, drug smugglers, or other people with nothing much to lose.

I’m sure there may be dangerous jobs but these days much of that can be done from friendly countries or even the office.

[edit] list of roles from MI6 site: https://www.sis.gov.uk/intelligence-officers.html

Re: Female spies of MI6

#76

Well, a women is treated equally only in the west, so per definition they can only spy as not honeytrap in the western society block. Everywhere else, its gonna be traditional.

"Treated equally", especially when it comes to things like wage parity, is still a bit of a far cry in the West. Not that that subtracts from your point, but just pointing out. Treated 'better', for sure.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#77

How does spying by humans/agents even work these days? I can't imagine a british agent going around spying in North korea, China or even Russia, much less a woman. Cause if you get caught you are going to get tortured into oblivion. Hence most of these 'spies' are on a diplomatic visa to prevent getting disappeared/tortured and therefore most of their movements are easily tracked. Spying as an agent is probably the w…

These Spies “Run Agents”: recruit, train, hand hold, interview, debrief and analyse, pay/bribe and present the information from the traitors, drug smugglers, or other people with nothing much to lose. I’m sure there may be dangerous jobs but these days much of that can be done from friendly countries or even the office. [edit] list of roles from MI6 site: https://www.sis.gov.uk/intelligence-officers.html

How does the first step of recruiting the agents/local traitors happen? Most of the official spies who are on diplomatic visa are tracked 24x7 in countries like China/NK/Russia.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#78

> For the first time ever, SIS officers reveal why women often make the best spies for our times I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview. Women spies have been around just as much, if not longer - Virginia Hall, Mata Hari, Jane Whorwood, Elizabeth Van Lew, Anne Dawson, Violette Szabo. Going even fur…

But women still make up less than 20-30% of operations agents in most western agencies. Only in the past decade has new recruits in MI6 and the CIA got to 40% women.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#79

> For the first time ever, SIS officers reveal why women often make the best spies for our times I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview. Women spies have been around just as much, if not longer - Virginia Hall, Mata Hari, Jane Whorwood, Elizabeth Van Lew, Anne Dawson, Violette Szabo. Going even fur…

But women still make up less than 20-30% of operations agents in most western agencies. Only in the past decade has new recruits in MI6 and the CIA got to 40% women.

Can you point me to this data?

Re: Female spies of MI6

#80
post #70
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power." (I know this is from TFA, not written by you) At least Russia and North Korea have women in positions of power, so it seems disingenuous to lump them together with Iran, at the very least. I'm unsure about China now , but there used to be very influential Chinese women. Also, Russ…

NK? Where do you see women represented in positions of power? Honest question. Kim Il Sung (or his son? memory is hazy) had a special all-female army unit that was his literal harem. I don’t think they value women very much, outside perhaps of nepotism.

Kim Yo-jong, Kim Jong-un's sister, is a woman in power in North Korea [1] (yes, probably because she is his sister, but she's no figurehead, and how else does one rise to power in North Korea anyway?) and is deemed by some analysts as a possible successor to her brother.

This doesn't make it a rule, but it shows there are women with power in North Korea. Because it's such an opaque country to outside observers, who knows how many more are there? Keep in mind the world didn't even know of her existence until relatively recently (about 2014).

I don't think something like this -- a woman being considered to run the country -- would be even thinkable in Iran.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Yo-jong

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