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Female spies of MI6

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Re: Female spies of MI6

#61

Post by medo-bear »

nervousvarun wrote: post #59
medo-bear wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

china has more women in positions of political representation than the us

By % of total offices or just raw total? China has over 4X the population of the US. Not to even mention different countries have different #s of political offices. Just seems like a difficult comparison to make.

by % of total offices

> Just seems like a difficult comparison to make

>> China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power

but generalizations like this are pretty easy

Re: Female spies of MI6

#62

Post by martopix »

the_af wrote: post #39
martopix wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. For example here it makes an explicit point: "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power. For the female spy, this weakness in the enemy is exploitable. Precisely because they are so likely to be overlooked, women have the potential to be the best spies of all." > p…

> "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power." (I know this is from TFA, not written by you) At least Russia and North Korea have women in positions of power, so it seems disingenuous to lump them together with Iran, at the very least. I'm unsure about China now , but there used to be very influential Chinese women. Also, Russ…

Fair point, but in defence of the author, I think there's a huge difference between having some women in positions of power and the attitude that people have towards women in daily life. I can totally imagine a society in which certain women from privileged background can rise to power (if, regarding north korea, you're talking about Kim Jong Un's sister, that's a great example), and yet the assumption most people have when they meet a woman is definitely not that she is someone powerful or to be wary of.

Also, what spies have is not 'power'. I wonder for example how many women there are in the high ranks of the army, even for the countries you listed and many others.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#63

Post by jacquesm »

swores wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Fleming actually worked for Naval Intelligence, I always thought he took those terms from there. The 'M' allegedly came from his mom.

Presumably the M name was inspired by C, the nickname given to the mi6 chief in real life. The C comes from that being what the first chief of mi6 used to sign, his surname was Smith-Cumming. Interestingly, he also famously said, after it was discovered that human semen works well as invisible ink, that "Every man his own stylo" - rather appropriate for a man named Cumming. edit: wiki says that staff under him used t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_St._Croix_Fleming

"Eve Fleming's nickname from her son Ian was M and Ian may have used his relationship with her as model for M, fictional head of Head of the Secret Intelligence Service and James Bond's boss."

That doesn't make it true, but it does seem to have some evidence.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#64

Post by Nomentatus »

medo-bear wrote: post #53
martopix wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. For example here it makes an explicit point: "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power. For the female spy, this weakness in the enemy is exploitable. Precisely because they are so likely to be overlooked, women have the potential to be the best spies of all." > p…

china has more women in positions of political representation than the us

Voters who are told how to vote, sure. But certainly not power:

No promotions for women at China’s party congress? Mimi Lau Published: 2:08pm, 10 Oct, 2022 https://www.scmp.com/news/article/3195409/no-promotions-wome...

Why are women unlikely to win promotion race at China’s Communist Party congress? Female cadres tend to rise through gender pathways in areas such as education and civil affairs, and in mass organisations But they’re rarely assigned to more high-profile portfolios such as economics, finance, industry and technology Mimi Lau Published: 11:00pm, 2 Oct, 2022 https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3194570/why...

Re: Female spies of MI6

#65

Post by Georgelemental »

medo-bear wrote: post #53
martopix wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. For example here it makes an explicit point: "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power. For the female spy, this weakness in the enemy is exploitable. Precisely because they are so likely to be overlooked, women have the potential to be the best spies of all." > p…

china has more women in positions of political representation than the us

China has a lot of figureheads and rubber stamp officials. For example, their >1K legislature is a rubber stamp no real de facto power. So the female representation in de jure leadership might not match the female representation in actual leadership.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#66

Post by medo-bear »

Georgelemental wrote: post #65
medo-bear wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

china has more women in positions of political representation than the us

China has a lot of figureheads and rubber stamp officials. For example, their >1K legislature is a rubber stamp no real de facto power. So the female representation in de jure leadership might not match the female representation in actual leadership.

im not talking about merits of chinese political system. but the thesis that communist-party-ruled societies are more favoured toward men than it is the case in most western governments is false. also according to statistics rwanda and cuba are world leaders in terms of % women holding office

Re: Female spies of MI6

#67

Post by frontman1988 »

How does spying by humans/agents even work these days? I can't imagine a british agent going around spying in North korea, China or even Russia, much less a woman. Cause if you get caught you are going to get tortured into oblivion. Hence most of these 'spies' are on a diplomatic visa to prevent getting disappeared/tortured and therefore most of their movements are easily tracked. Spying as an agent is probably the worst job that exists that I can't imagine anyone with a family would do it unless they are forced into it. And society rarely forces women into such hazardous situations. From my experience, people who become spies aren't women with education from elite colleges who raise families, they are much more likelier to be prisoners on a deal or drug smugglers or other people with nothing much to lose.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#68

Post by anigbrowl »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #27

> For the first time ever, SIS officers reveal why women often make the best spies for our times I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. It also reads like the author relied mostly on novels, movies, and such instead on a the interview. Women spies have been around just as much, if not longer - Virginia Hall, Mata Hari, Jane Whorwood, Elizabeth Van Lew, Anne Dawson, Violette Szabo. Going even fur…

Usually fluff articles like this are a prelude to a recruiting push. MI6 advertises in the Economist and I think the FT.

Re: Female spies of MI6

#69

Post by photoGrant »

frontman1988 wrote: post #67

How does spying by humans/agents even work these days? I can't imagine a british agent going around spying in North korea, China or even Russia, much less a woman. Cause if you get caught you are going to get tortured into oblivion. Hence most of these 'spies' are on a diplomatic visa to prevent getting disappeared/tortured and therefore most of their movements are easily tracked. Spying as an agent is probably the w…

What exactly is your experience? This just seems so innocently naive about how spies actually work

Re: Female spies of MI6

#70

Post by elteto »

the_af wrote: post #39
martopix wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was unable to find where this was answered in the article. For example here it makes an explicit point: "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power. For the female spy, this weakness in the enemy is exploitable. Precisely because they are so likely to be overlooked, women have the potential to be the best spies of all." > p…

> "The UK’s main adversaries today — China, Russia, Iran and North Korea — are repressive societies with few women in positions of power." (I know this is from TFA, not written by you) At least Russia and North Korea have women in positions of power, so it seems disingenuous to lump them together with Iran, at the very least. I'm unsure about China now , but there used to be very influential Chinese women. Also, Russ…

NK? Where do you see women represented in positions of power? Honest question.

Kim Il Sung (or his son? memory is hazy) had a special all-female army unit that was his literal harem. I don’t think they value women very much, outside perhaps of nepotism.

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