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ElonJet Is Now Suspended

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Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#291

Post by ptero »

yanderekko wrote: post #27
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

Serious question: Is there an alternative narrative here? People are acting like Musk changed course for no reason, but are there no real claims that the account perhaps had started to engage in other rule-breaking content? Note that I'm asking for an actual steelmanned argument for why there's no possible defense of Musk here, not why people have high priors to just assume there's no defense.

I am rarely on twitter (just reading financial macro discussions, for which twitter seems to be a center of excellence), so probably have skewed priors. That said, skimming this information I see nothing particularly bad in banning the account that posted screenshots of internal confidential discussions.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the freedom of speech. It is related to breaking the promise (made when joining any company as an employee) not to divulge confidential information. This is a restriction on the freedom of speech that one knowingly agrees to when joining the company.

If I knowingly posted sensitive internal discussions from my employer I would be kicked out. Or worse: if I worked in a hospital and shared some sensitive pictures I might be hit with heavy fines or spend time behind bars. My 2c.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#293

Post by Retric »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #270
marricks wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are acting like Musk changed course for no reason I'm not sure that's the case. I think many people, myself included, assumed Musk's course was always "just do what's best for me." So he's really just holding to that. You should give people in your life the benefit of the doubt, but large corporations and billionaires usually found success by acting in their own interest so they will just keep on doing that.

> large corporations and billionaires usually found success by acting in their own interest so they will just keep on doing that I mean, if you have to irrationally hate someone, I guess billionaires are going to be the ones with the resources to handle it, but I'd really rather we as a society move away from this sort of cathartic scapegoating altogether. The more we normalize taking our anger out on some group or a…

That suggests people hand out equal hate to all billionaires. JK Rawling seems like an obvious exception to that narrative.

From what I have seen billionaires tend to get more hate because they simply have more negative impact on peoples lives. Elon kicking out Tesla’s founders is hard to judge objectively because they might have done a worse job, but it’s easy to identify lots of dumb shit he did that harmed the company. Presumably he did plenty of positive things, but the negatives are just easier to identify.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#294

Post by coldpie »

LimitedInfo wrote: post #238
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

serious question, does free speech extend to doxing? Personally I wouldn't like if there was a twitter that constantly tweeted the location of my car.

> serious question, does free speech extend to doxing

Boy, what a complicated and serious question. We should form a committee to discuss exactly where our community places reasonable boundaries and adjudicate blurry edge cases. Who could have predicted that a policy like "if it's legal, it's allowed" would lead to problems? Surely no one with a few dozen billion dollars to set on fire would be that unbelievably stupid.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#295

Post by [deleted] »

EarlKing wrote: post #271
phailhaus wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flight data is already public, the account was "just" posting about it on Twitter.

So if I find your phone number in the white pages you'll have no problem with everyone knowing it, right? Because that's public information, right?

[deleted]

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#296

Post by fsoteras_xps »

Lets generalize the concept of ElonJet , are we ok for apps disclosing localization of anybody main vehicle? e.g.: the localization at any time of the day of your car? or let generalize more: your localization at any moment of the day or the localization of your underage son or daughter? For my case I wouldn't like that at all nonetheless the fact that I am totally unimportant, and I don't see people that frees that data in the open without permission of the tracked ones as users of free speech rights...

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#297

Post by resoluteteeth »

LimitedInfo wrote: post #238
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

serious question, does free speech extend to doxing? Personally I wouldn't like if there was a twitter that constantly tweeted the location of my car.

I don't know whether I think it's free speech honestly, but I think the more relevant question here is whether Musk would consider it "free speech" to post the same type of information about someone else.

When he's not the object of the speech in question, he seems to think that things like calling people pedophiles is free speech, so he generally seems to be a free speech maximalist and I'm guessing the answer might be yes.

I don't consider a lot of things to be free speech that musk apparently does, but there's a big difference between him being a free speech maximalist in general and just supporting free speech when it's convenient.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#298

Post by plorg »

yanderekko wrote: post #27
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

Serious question: Is there an alternative narrative here? People are acting like Musk changed course for no reason, but are there no real claims that the account perhaps had started to engage in other rule-breaking content? Note that I'm asking for an actual steelmanned argument for why there's no possible defense of Musk here, not why people have high priors to just assume there's no defense.

Steel manning really only works if you can assume the other person continues to argue in good faith. If the other person keeps moving the goalposts and demanding you construct a strong argument for their behavior they're just being abusive and I would suggest the best course of action is to leave.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#299

Post by ctvo »

starkd wrote: post #215
Flipflip79 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is publicly available information. Flight tracks are not private

It doesn't matter if its publicly available. To aggregate the data in such an easily accessible form is an invitation to crackpots. Few crackpots are going to seek out such information unless they are truly dedicated from the get-go.

If that's your view on privacy, fine. But what about these accounts?

- https://twitter.com/BillGatesJet

- https://twitter.com/bezosjets

This selective ban is indefensible, obviously personal, with no ties to any overarching principals.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#300

Post by penultimatename »

starkd wrote: post #170
pjc50 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does anyone care about alternative "narratives"? Are there any other facts that one might like to introduce? Not alternative facts, things that actually happened.

There is an alternative justification in the right to privacy. Such accounts are indeed reckless with no corresponding need to know. No one's free speech rights are being suppressed here.

I'll let the FAA know they're instrumental in violating the privacy of jet owners.
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