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Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#81
> do you think it's worth the effort to learn using VIM more deeply today?

Only worth it on four conditions:

1. You are able to incorporate it into the tools you need - whether than be an IDE, a workflow that involves actually opening VIM, or whatever.

2. You stick with it, because the costs in terms of time and effort are big up front while the benefits start very slowly but build up later and faster with proficiency.

3. You aren't already using a good text editor or IDE that provides the benefits you're looking for. For example, the weird "hjkl" navigation is actually part of a bigger feature set that will run circles around basic arrow- and page-key navigation and editing (even with an IDE). But, if you're looking to benefit from regex features, why even most basic IDEs usually have that.

4. You have adequate muscle memory. You won't be fast and you won't gain proficiency if your fingers won't remember those keys and combinations.

...seems like a cautionary tale so far, so let me temper by saying I install wherever I can - including IDE plugins, etc. Microsoft (VS and Code) and JetBrains IDEs both have pretty decent plugins. I can say without boasting that I am faster with it at both pounding out text and editing text from all sorts of crazy languages and environments. And often times it gives me a speed advantage over my peers who don't use it. But that's only because I took time to become proficient at it and learn some of the tricks that are available.

> do you think VIM is still fine, or rather neovim? Or something fresh like helix?

VIM is fine in terms of stayability - it's not going anywhere. I'd say look at the alternatives only if you're interested in the special benefits they have over normal VIM.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#82
post #73

Yes definitely. Vim will be around for the rest of your career, long after VSCode or other IDE's have come and gone. Investing in tools and workflows that are properly open source, and have serious longevity has a big payoff.

That holds on paper but I'm not sure I agree. I've used Notepad++, Sublime Text, Atom, and Visual Studio Code. Each of these has introduced game changing improvements (ST has popularized the command palette, Atom allowed high quality, well integrated, and easy to write extensions, VSCode improved upon Atom with way better performance, brought LSP, and drastically improved the remote dev experience). They have in comm…

Agree with improvements available in other editors.

But disagree with this:

> I never think "damn, typing 3dd would be so much faster than selecting 3 lines and hitting delete"

I actually do think that all the time, and get annoyed when I have to take the second or so to move away from the keyboard to find the mouse/trackpad.

Need to delete three lines, starting with line 54 at the top of your screen? 54gg 3dd

I would never reach for my mouse for that unless I had to.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#83
Yes. I no longer use vim (plugins aren’t fun to mess around with for me, feel like I’m just always catching up to functionality in more complete tools) but I use vim mode in all my other editors/IDEs (pycharm, emacs, vs code)

For actual, non-semantic text editing, the speed of vim muscle memory can’t be beat.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#85
Yes. Definitely.

Disclaimer: I don't often use a modal text-editor like vi/vim, I use one like emacs that employs control-codes. ('jstar', a clone of the WordStar that I've been imprinted with for nearly 40 years)

All UNIX systems have vi/vim built-in. It pays to have a working knowledge of it, even when it's not your everyday text editor. It's got me out of a few emergencies with recent installs over the years. (Broken /etc/fstab, anyone?)

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#86

For context, I have been using Vim as my main driver for 12+ years, now, and I have been heavily involved with the ecosystem (patches, plugins, support, etc.) for most of that time. Learning enough Vim for it to pay off in terms of productivity and whatnot is quite a journey. If you are committed, it might take a couple months to follow chapters 1-12 and 20-32 of the user manual, which will put you in a better positi…

As an emacs user, I support this comment. I think the main point is that there is a long-term benefit to learning multi-use text editors. Yes, it is painful at first, but the dividends are repaid over time.

As for VI vs emacs - both are good. I would search YouTube for 'Top 10 VIM plugins' and 'Top 10 emacs packages' and see if either grab your attention and go with that.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#87
post #73

Yes definitely. Vim will be around for the rest of your career, long after VSCode or other IDE's have come and gone. Investing in tools and workflows that are properly open source, and have serious longevity has a big payoff.

That holds on paper but I'm not sure I agree. I've used Notepad++, Sublime Text, Atom, and Visual Studio Code. Each of these has introduced game changing improvements (ST has popularized the command palette, Atom allowed high quality, well integrated, and easy to write extensions, VSCode improved upon Atom with way better performance, brought LSP, and drastically improved the remote dev experience). They have in comm…

Yeah I disagree with the shade on vim motions. I'm trying to use them everywhere and even went looking for a vim and slack integration.

In fact I believe the motions are way more universal than any particular editor's key bindings. There's plugins and extensions for vim motions in almost all editor's I've used barring some database specific UIs.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#88

For context, I have been using Vim as my main driver for 12+ years, now, and I have been heavily involved with the ecosystem (patches, plugins, support, etc.) for most of that time. Learning enough Vim for it to pay off in terms of productivity and whatnot is quite a journey. If you are committed, it might take a couple months to follow chapters 1-12 and 20-32 of the user manual, which will put you in a better positi…

As an emacs user, I support this comment. I think the main point is that there is a long-term benefit to learning multi-use text editors. Yes, it is painful at first, but the dividends are repaid over time. As for VI vs emacs - both are good. I would search YouTube for 'Top 10 VIM plugins' and 'Top 10 emacs packages' and see if either grab your attention and go with that.

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Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Vim is basically the only editor you can safely assume to be available on any machine you’ll ever interact with. Windows?

Vim is available on a lot of Windows machines through WSL. I agree this would not be my go-to editor on Windows though.

Or just by installing the official Windows version of vim. You really don’t need to be installing a full Linux distribution just to get vim.

Re: Ask HN: Is Vim still worth learning?

#90
Generally, yes. Learning how to navigate will help you in any *nix systems.

> since there are quite some comments highlighting the effectiveness of a good VIM setup and muscle memory of 10+ years, I would like to know your opinion on starting to get into it now (end of 2022)

I think this is not a good mindset to have. Knowing what's effective and building that muscle memory will take a long* time. If you approach thinking that "this is going to make my productivity fly because other people said so," the learning curve will flatten you and make you sad.

IMO, do it for curiosity's sake - having a hacker's mindset in the beginning will smooth that curve out!

As a testimonial mirroring other comments in this thread: you really can't go wrong with it once you get the hang of it. My experience with vim has been always positive & I've never had to change the core of my config for years. 99% of every LoC I've written in the past 10 years has been in vim. Every time I had to use/try a new editor, vim keybinding is the first extension I install (or setting I enable). It has helped my RSI a bunch (huge QoL improvement) and this is especially crucial with laptops: no more trackpad fiddling in the middle of typing!

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