The Pirahã are off by one (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Pirahã are off by one (2020)

#21

Post by xyzelement » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

defrost wrote: post #11

xyzelement wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar thought about numbers that exist or don't. In my book, something like two or ten exists - because my kid can hold up 2 fingers and say 2 or all of them and say 10. I am saying that you can actually count to those numbers in physical space. But at some point, the number is like larger than the number of atoms in the universe (or whatever you think is the biggest domain we can count) and once you go pas…

So .. if the world has 10 marbles we may only count to 10 ..? This despite there being ( 10 x 9 ) groupings of pairs of those 10 marbles? For any of those 90 pairs we can show a physical example of ( this marble, that marble ).

Someone once said that whatever follows "So..." Is going to be a misrepresentation of what one said :)

In my comment I said "or whatever is the largest domain you think you can count". So in your example we still run out of physical stuff that can be counted (at 90) right?

Re: The Pirahã are off by one (2020)

#22

Post by benj111 » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 3:09 PM UTC

Guthur wrote: post #14

Guthur wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero is not even absence it would be absolutely nothing, irreducibly nothing.

Though a strange thought has occurred that existence of One implies Zero by it's lack of absence. But this feel incoherent because these two poles can never exist together.

I'm trying to parse this.

Do you mean zero implies one by its lack of absence?

Re: The Pirahã are off by one (2020)

#23

Post by Guthur » Wed, Dec 14, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #22

Guthur wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though a strange thought has occurred that existence of One implies Zero by it's lack of absence. But this feel incoherent because these two poles can never exist together.

I'm trying to parse this. Do you mean zero implies one by its lack of absence?

I feel the difficulty is that they can't exist together. But it was more a musing on my part, please forgive me that indulgence.

I'm wondering that if we were to consider a platonic view of forms through planes of physicality, idea and thought is it the case that all that exists across them is One?

Re: The Pirahã are off by one (2020)

#24

Post by defrost » Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 12:40 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #21

defrost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So .. if the world has 10 marbles we may only count to 10 ..? This despite there being ( 10 x 9 ) groupings of pairs of those 10 marbles? For any of those 90 pairs we can show a physical example of ( this marble, that marble ).

Someone once said that whatever follows "So..." Is going to be a misrepresentation of what one said :) In my comment I said "or whatever is the largest domain you think you can count". So in your example we still run out of physical stuff that can be counted (at 90) right?

> whatever follows "So..." Is going to be a misrepresentation of what one said :)

> So in your example .. right?

Not at all, and it's pretty clear why :)