Live data from Hacker News

Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

aaronklein.com

31–40 of 83 posts

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#31
I don't know what the answer is for wikipedia. But I do know that I use dictionary.com less frequently because of the ads.

An extreme example of how far this goes was the Apple iPad ad that ran on yahoo.com a week or so ago. It WAS the upper fold of the front page. Fixed in place at 974px by 500px just below the search bar and logo. Bam. Here I am. Buy me now. No doubt paid some bills but made me think "this organization has a price."

My impression is wikipedia values the way users interact with its content and would rather not introduce distractions.

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#32
I used to donate to the fund, but ever since I saw their budget that doubles every year (now it's around $20 Million), I started having reservation on giving. I don't mind supporting Wikipedia service, but I feel the money is now being spent on some other initiatives.

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#34

    Capitalism won, try it.
I don't think this is true here at all. The obvious real-world analogy is news. I would much rather listen to NPR or the BBC than watch CNN or a local broadcast station -- I don't care if the latter has "won" by making money, I care about the quality and editorial independence of the content.

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#35
Wikipedia competes with other companies not just on market share and money, but even more on attention from people actively supporting it by editing the information. I see no immediate gain they could get in market share by making money with ads as they are already having the biggest share of any encyclopedia with their current way of working. But I'm rather certain they would lose a lot of editors and would even give a competitor a chance to gain those people. As little as many people might care about seeing Google-ads, no one helps Google for free. Swarm driven websites have to care about attention from people far more than about money as long as they are able to cover their costs (and they are able to do that as long as they have the swarm behind them).

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#36
post #30

I've always wondered why Wikipedia doesn't include affiliate links to Amazon on all their book and movie articles. I think their current logic is that affiliate links force them to choose which online store they want to support, which is something they appear loath to do. Look at the page they send you too when you do try to buy a book in an article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0802130984 . It's…

The point is that the information about the book might not be completely objective when money is involved. It's that tiny bit of bias that might get injected in the article, by someone who is affiliated, be it Amazon employee or someone from Wikimedia. When this might not be a real issue, no one can be sure, and the trust in absolute objectivity is lost.

You're right, but money already is involved in these articles. Authors and actors (and agents, I've suspected in a few cases) are keeping a biased eye on their articles.

I think it would be difficult for Wikipedia to be corrupted by money. There's too much transparency, and there's too large of a community. The admins have already discovered with dealt with large-scale attempts to game the system.

What's actually at stake here is the appearance of objectivity. Affiliate links, which are nearly universal across the web, should be minimally objectionable.

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#37
post #20

Reminds me of a time I saw Craig of Craig's List on a forum in the mid 2000s. People asked him why he didn't put ads on the Craigs List. With negligible effort his company could profit hugely. He politely pointed out that most of the companies that tried to maximize profit that way went bankrupt in the recession. Meanwhile his company was chugging along, free to do what it wanted, delivering a product its customers l…

Craigslist does have 'ads', of a sort: all postings in certain categories, in certain markets, require a posting fee.

I think Craiglist, while not a non-profit, is actually a very good model for the path Wikipedia chose not to take. That is, don't just accept the default ad-inserts, but figure out a unique way to charge for promotional inserts that is complementary to your main model. (The fees actually make Craigslist better, by filtering the volume/quality of posts in certain economically-valuable categories.)

Mozilla, a non-profit, is another example. The search-engine-default that they sell is now making them $300 million a year, but at negligible cost to their users (compared to the alternative of giving that placement away, via some hypothetical revenue-oblivious process of evaluation or install-time-choice).

Once upon a time, Wikipedia could have kicked off an effort to find a promotional-placement model that was unique to Wikipedia, and considerate of concerns about the influences of commerce and advertising budgets.

I think such an effort would have yielded interesting and beneficial results: if any organization had a chance to find a way to balance concerns and insulate editorial processes, Wikipedia had a chance. And today they might be a $billion-a-year budget nonprofit instead of a $40million-a-year budget nonprofit. (That would introduce plenty of other existential risks and opportunities different from their current focus.)

But, they went another way, based on some really strong preferences from a large and important segment of the stakeholders. And, that path has still worked very well for Wikipedia. The idea that "no advertising" is a necessary part of the recipe is now core doctrine, and can't easily be reevaluated. It would take a major crisis or external challenge to change; in the meantime these discussions are just interesting thought experiments.

Re: Should Wikipedia run ads that ask for money, or ads that make money?

#38
post #2

They should place one ad in the sidebar, with a "request for comments" link right above it. Run that for a week, post the results, and let the community decide.

If you follow the history of Wikipedia, ads have been discussed many times. The consensus has always been "no, absolutely not."

If the WMF put even a single ad on Wikipedia as an experiment, there would be a community uproar and probably at least one fork (much as the Spanish Wikipedia forked years ago under threat of ads, and didn't rejoin for years, even though the ads themselves did not persist.)

Personally, I think that's as it should be.

Post reply on HN