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A software change allowed FTX to use client money

reuters.com

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Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#171
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. > Singh will definitely get prison time as well But how long? Jerome O'Hara and George Perez were arguably more complicit in Madoff's scheme than anyone, having written the computer software to generate the fake investment return reports and even actively helped dupe the investigating regulators but were on…

For a non-violent crime which saw the recovery of a large fraction of the loot that's not 'only'.

It is relative to the other participants.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse if you are found to be breaking the law. So if you think what you are doing is possibly in violation of the law you better bone up or ask a lawyer for a statement on letterhead that what you are doing is ok.

So every dev needs to also be an expert lawyer and financier??? OK.

No, not every dev.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#173
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But at the end of the day, expecting code to replace the core human emotion of trust, the source of money, is ridiculous. No, the point is for code to replace the institutions/people that people trust (ie. trusting the bitcoin network's consensus code, rather than a central bank), not "replace the core human emotion of trust".

Which works great until the core developers decide to rollback the “code is law” blockchain because there was a transaction they didn’t like. As it turns you still need to trust humans even in the world of “code is law”

Not really, the community ultimately decides whether to accept such decisions via distributed consensus. In this case a huge majority went along with it, but a minority did not; see Ethereum Classic, which still kinda exists

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#174
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember what happened with the 2016 Ethereum DAO? Even expert programmers aren't able to check smart contracts for all possible issues.

The DAO “hack” was just a legitimate transfer of wealth from weak hands to smarter hands. Code is law. All “bugs” are law too. The only people who stole anything where the devs who reversed the ethereum blockchain…

> devs who reversed the ethereum blockchain

They didn't. They made a hard fork and the community followed. The "hacked" chain still exists, go use it if you want.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse if you are found to be breaking the law. So if you think what you are doing is possibly in violation of the law you better bone up or ask a lawyer for a statement on letterhead that what you are doing is ok.

So every dev needs to also be an expert lawyer and financier??? OK.

Propably not, but a solid understanding of the rules and regulations, and legal requirements, of your field and thebindustry your working in is actually a pretty good thing.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#177

> Only Singh, Bankman-Fried and a few other top FTX and Alameda executives knew about the exemption in the code, according to three former executives briefed on the matter. A digital dashboard used by staff to track FTX customer assets and liabilities was programmed so it would not take into account that Alameda had withdrawn the client funds, according to two of the people and a screenshot of the portal that Reuters…

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. Strange comment. Are the engineers who made the code change responsible?? Do engineers need to be lawyers and financial gurus too, and evaluate every ticket they are given for possible illegality in every country the software is used??

If the engineer(s) should be responsible or not doesn't really matter, you could still get blamed either way.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. Strange comment. Are the engineers who made the code change responsible?? Do engineers need to be lawyers and financial gurus too, and evaluate every ticket they are given for possible illegality in every country the software is used??

I don't know, we hold other engineers responsible for the consequences of their work, personally I think the industry would be better off if we had more accountability for programmers.

But we don't hold the gun-industry accountable for mass-shootings. Maybe we should. But situation is a little bit similar here. The engineer created the gun. He didn't use the software to shoot people. Or maybe he did. The question is did he personally benefit from the change made more than his usual salary?

Or think about people who build bridges. They just follow the orders they get from higher ups. Bridge collapses. The higher-ups should be held accountable not the workers. The question I think is did the engineer here just follow orders? Perhaps he understood very little about finance, only about programming.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#179

The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is. They aren't coming from a baseline assumption that their job is to protect and interests and the money of their clients. Traditional banks, for the most part, have DNA built around protecting customer interests and customer money. Crypto companies have none of that attitude - behind every one of…

> Traditional banks, for the most part, have DNA built around protecting customer interests and customer money.

Would you feel comfortable wiring your money off to a bank account in the Bahamas? I wouldn't. I think safety is more about jurisdiction (and therefore regulations) than it is about what type of currency a business deals in.

Bank DNA has always coded for taking foolhardy risks with customer money. It wasn't until heavy regulation came into play that banks stopped going bust left and right, at least in the USA. Even under heavy regulation, you still see their true colors from time to time such as when they discovered risk loopholes in 2008 that led to the financial panic.

Until regulation hits crypto custodians, they will largely be fly-by-night yokels that go bust left and right, just like the first American banks did. After regulation hits, they will be just as safe as modern banks (and likely, many crypto custodians WILL be modern banks - see e.g. Fidelity entering the custody business recently.)

> The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is.

The entirety of Wall street has no concept of what "integrity" is. The solution was heavy regulation. It happened to banks, and it will happen to crypto. Crypto custodians are speed-running banking regulation.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just crypto. The entire fintech space has an ideology that lines up far better with Silicon Valley than with Wall Street. The Wall Street mentality would dictate a very different course of action than the Silicon Valley mentality in many of the situations described in the cases brought by the DoJ and the SEC, and yet the Silicon Valley mentality seems to have been the guideline used by SBF/FTX -- perhaps bec…

I've never been near code handling money, but "never put anything in writing that you wouldn't want to see in the New York Times" is something I've heard repeatedly at a big tech company too. It seems like pretty standard advice nowadays. The "move fast and break things" slogan was by Zuckerberg at Facebook, though they've since abandoned it.

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