Live data from Hacker News

After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

pcgamer.com

271–280 of 451 posts

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#271
post #200

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his best friend. Launched it on Steam. Very low sales. But he learnt a huge amount about marketing and game design based on player feedback. Designed a second game, put all the marketing learnings into it, 48 hours after launch the biggest streamer on twitch was stre…

After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently. A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in f…

First I’ve heard of your game is via this comment, and as a fan of old Windows 95 / DOS games, this looks great! I’m eager to buy it once I’m able to load up some Steam credits.

I’ve been down your road before, and it sucks, but ultimately it’s why you need to make sure you enjoy doing what you’re doing above all else, with the hopes that others will enjoy it.

Sometimes you just gotta make something because you want it to exist in the world, and because YOU want to be the one to bring it into existence.

Personally, I love that you’re keeping a concept like this alive.

That said, because it’s the internet, I can’t help but add my $0.02 on your marketing efforts.

So, from your brief description of your attempt at Reddit marketing, I can’t help but notice that your game is very much going for the Chip’s Challenge / MS DOS / Windows 95 vibe.

Yet your marketing efforts and description of game length is trying to make a Nintendo Power / Super Mario connection. On a subreddit in which people were upvoting NES cartridges.

I’d say that’s the wrong audience. While there’s plenty of overlap between early PC gamers and early Nintendo gamers, most people tend to focus their nostalgia on one over the other.

You’ve found a cool niche, but I would expect far more resonance with the vintage PC / DOS gaming crowd, and maybe even the Amiga / Atari PC crowd.

But like I said, I’m not any better at this than you, and I also acknowledge that your Reddit story may be just one of many attempts you’ve made at marketing.

I hope you keep at it, and find enjoyment in the process, but don’t be afraid to take breaks, or try something wildly different. Best of luck!

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#272
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently. A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in f…

Assuming the game is "Hazmat Hijinks: Total Meltdown" on Steam. Here's some tough love: The video takes way too long to get to gameplay. Screenshots do a poor job explaining what the mechanic is. I've read the capsule image, watched some of the trailer, looked at several of the screenshots and still can't tell you what the gameplay loop is. Sort of a top down puzzle thing? With a "match the color" mechanic? The art i…

>"Hazmat Hijinks: Total Meltdown" on Steam

Looks like 1990 Chip's Challenge on Windows 3, thats not a good look.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? Show me a good Steam game that isn't selling well.

Hellion.

This game?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/588210/HELLION/

Looks like it sold incredibly well and was abandoned by the developers and is no longer for sale.

A weird example.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

Is it though? Show me a good Steam game that isn't selling well.

Easy: Among Us, for the many months that it toiled in nearly complete obscurity to the point of the development team nearly giving up the ghost and quitting, until one specific streamer picked it up and gave it the critical mass attention it needed to go absolutely huge. Had the developers had slightly less resources and shut down the servers before that crucial moment it would have never happened, even though clearly Among Us is a fantastic game in retrospect.

Quality is necessary but not sufficient for success.

Also: a while back, I wanted to empirically test the "any good game will succeed on steam, and if it doesn't succeed, it isn't a good game" hypothesis by setting up a little metagame called "Steam Prophet". We would track upcoming steam games and try to predict which ones would succeed BEFORE they came out. We eventually disbanded the project when we got so reliably good (but not perfect) at predictions that we got bored and quit. Turns out that just a few leading metrics were incredibly predictive of day 1 (and thus day 30, day 60, and day 90, and year 1) success -- chiefly the number of followers the game had on Steam on launch day. It is a rare game indeed that can succeed on Steam without first having banked tons of high quality wishlists (of which followers is a public proxy metric for).

The spirit of Steam Prophet lives on today in the form of Simon Carless' Game Discover Co newsletter, which obsessively follows upcoming and newly released Steam Games: https://gamediscover.co/

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in countries where there are people in power who stand to benefit from privatizating healthcare so as to turn it into the dystopian hellscape like the American healthcare system. We don't have this issue in Taiwan for example. I'm sure other countries can pipe up. Actually now that I think about it the devs could relatively easily get a gold card visa and emigrate here... From what I remember of their documentar…

Taiwan has other problems that are similar to what Ukraine has faced from Russia. People would be crazy to immigrate there now and in the near future.

People keep telling us this but we feel it's overblown. When you listen to western media they make it seem like an invasion is just around the corner, whereas over here the relationship with the PRC is little changed.

Nobody can know for sure but you can never know if a huge earthquake will hit San Francisco, better not live there. Or if the subway will flood in new York city, better not live there. Or if Berlin will be hit with a terrorist bomb, better not live there...

And so on. At least here we are very unlikely to be shot, and, our public transit means we don't have to risk death from drunk driving. I believe a rational analysis of actual likelihood to random death in Taiwan vs the usa, the outcomes are much better in Taiwan, and that's before considering better access to healthcare and other reasons our quality of life is higher here.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#276
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

Is it a straight lottery (random chance), or does marketing play a role along with the game itself?

Of course it's not just a lottery, it's a lottery weighted (at least to some degree) by a variety of factors like the game itself and the marketing you put into it.

The point I think people usually mean to make is that the odds are low (really, extremely low) so it's not really a prudent financial choice unless you have other ways to support yourself and don't care about potentially throwing away the time/effort if it doesn't work out.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan has other problems that are similar to what Ukraine has faced from Russia. People would be crazy to immigrate there now and in the near future.

People keep telling us this but we feel it's overblown. When you listen to western media they make it seem like an invasion is just around the corner, whereas over here the relationship with the PRC is little changed. Nobody can know for sure but you can never know if a huge earthquake will hit San Francisco, better not live there. Or if the subway will flood in new York city, better not live there. Or if Berlin will…

I’ve been watching news in Asia, including from Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and the Philippines.

It’s not overblown. If I were to guess, people are prone to normalcy bias even when the probability for an invasion is getting higher and higher.

The further China’s social order degrades, the higher the chances of an invasion.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#278
post #22
post #2

They are definitely in 'set for life if we make wise choices' territory. In another month I'm betting they will be in 'set for life even if we make foolish choices' territory. I'm really happy for them. They really stayed true to their passion and I'm happy to see them rewarded for this.

> They are definitely in 'set for life if we make wise choices' territory Sure it seems that way now, but what happens when a volcano appears under their house and it floods with lava? Or they go to war with the elves?

This. Or one of them gets caught in the rain while fishing and decides to murder teh other one.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capitalist European governments that are being elected are privatizing healthcare. The first step for doing that is defunding public healthcare to make people say that 'it doesnt work - its better in private hospitals'. Then you say you have to privatize the entire system. It also funnels people to private hospitals early - when you defund public healthcare and force people into long wait times, they have no opti…

Most affluent European nations have seen net negative economic growth for the past 15-20 years, and in some cases for a generation (France and Britain). Now they're commonly seeing population contraction or flattening. They already have high taxes. They're in deep shit and it has little to do with Capitalists taking over their healthcare systems. The math was always going to take them here. Only per capita economic g…

[deleted]

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capitalist European governments that are being elected are privatizing healthcare. The first step for doing that is defunding public healthcare to make people say that 'it doesnt work - its better in private hospitals'. Then you say you have to privatize the entire system. It also funnels people to private hospitals early - when you defund public healthcare and force people into long wait times, they have no opti…

Most affluent European nations have seen net negative economic growth for the past 15-20 years, and in some cases for a generation (France and Britain). Now they're commonly seeing population contraction or flattening. They already have high taxes. They're in deep shit and it has little to do with Capitalists taking over their healthcare systems. The math was always going to take them here. Only per capita economic g…

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?location...

As the World Bank dataset shows, Germany has in fact had GDP per capita growth - the 26500 figure you cite is in 2015 dollars, so it is already adjusted for inflation. GDP growth is never reported in nominal terms, but always in real terms, which is adjusted for inflation.

Post reply on HN