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After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

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Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#221

Post by cableshaft »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #18
datalopers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? 300,000 units * $30 = $9M - 30% Steam tax = $6.3M in a single year take out federal taxes (just gonna call it 36% and ignore SFJ/MFJ), leaves them about $2M each. I'm sure they're some sort of a legal entity in WA state and will owe the b&o tax too. They deserve it absolutely but $2M each does not put them in a position of "fuck you" [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI

That's 300 000 units in 7 days since launch if I understand it correctly. Even if we consider (I don't know if that's true or not), that theses 7 days are going to be the best ever for them that's still only 7 days.

They'll get a sale from me here before too long. I just know I don't have time for another addiction right now, at least not until the new year. Probably quite a few people being more frugal now because of the holidays that will buy it shortly after. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 500k+ sales by the end of January.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#222

Post by bpye »

zajio1am wrote: post #213
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dwarf Fortress is basically uncopyable. Lots of games have tried: RimWorld is a good example. But they end up feeling like shallow imitations, because Dwarf Fortress has been continuously upgraded for 16 years. It's the game that every first year game dev dreams of making, with incredibly deep simulation and a myriad of mechanics to play with, before they realize that it would take decades to build. The Toady One is…

While Dwarf Fortress is incredibly deep simulation, it is also filled with bugs and UI misdesigns, that makes playing it much more frustrating than playing e.g. Rimworld. Also, the simulation is very uneven, some parts are very deep, some very shallow and some completely broken.

I never successfully got into Dwarf Fortress before because the ASCII interface was just too hard to learn. I have had some fun with the new release.

I do agree though, whilst it’s made the game, for me, playable, there are lots of smaller annoyances that really add up once you’re a few hours into a fort. The UI is inconsistent in many areas. Sometimes you can view dwarf details, sometimes you can’t. Sometimes right click closes one level, sometimes it’s all of them, then for the squad menu you dismiss by the squad button/hot key again… Search is useful but not available everywhere.

I hope some of these annoyances will get resolved, but certainly it’s not a perfectly polished game either. It is still fun - yes - but I can’t help but be a little sad because it could absolutely be better.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#223

Post by anakanemison »

DonHopkins wrote: post #178
jjwiseman wrote: post #49

Please don't pull a notch, please don't pull a notch...

I was just thinking that myself, and wrote about it 5 days ago! But I have a lot more faith in the Adams brothers than my misplaced faith in Notch, who was inspired by Dwarf Fortress to make Minecraft. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33907092 DonHopkins 5 days ago | parent | context | favorite | on: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft ... Years ago when Minecraft was new, I used to really respect a…

Ten years ago (exactly, remarkably) Notch wrote about his father on his old blog.

I think it's a beautiful, sad, human piece of writing. It's hard to find online, now that his blog ("The Word of Notch") went away. Someone made a 500+ page PDF backup of his blog, here:

https://habrador.itch.io/the-word-of-notch

The post, titled "I love you, dad", is the second to last post.

Making beautiful things doesn't make up for saying horrible things. Still, every time I used to hear about the awful stuff Notch posted, I remembered how I felt about him when I read about him and his dad.

I just wish things didn't have to be so awful, for everyone.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#224

Post by wardedVibe »

aschearer wrote: post #195
CuriousCosmic wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nit for 2. A fantastic game doesn't have to be visually stunning to be successful. It helps of course but visuals don't make/break an otherwise fun game. What does matter however is that the visuals need to make sense and be consistent. You can get away with "ugly" or otherwise unremarkable graphics but inconsistent or confusing visuals will interfere with gameplay and the game will suffer.

Trying to release a game with "ugly" or "unremarkable" artwork is playing on hard mode. Be ugly in a "visually stunning" way that's original. E.g. Cruelty Squad. I know there are counterexamples. Many of them are just plain lucky, like Flappy Birds. This very article is about a game that kneecapped its sales for decades on account of being ugly.

I mean... df literally wasn't for sale until recently. They only monetized because American healthcare is bananas (its mentioned in this article and discussed more fully earlier https://www.pcgamer.com/if-dwarf-fortress-sells-millions-on-...). Otherwise it sounds like they would've been content with the ongoing patreon funding they had. It was quite popular before the graphics version.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#225

Post by komali2 »

spacephysics wrote: post #153
serverholic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare and basic income are crucial for moving towards the next stage of civilizaiton. Like you said, I'm really glad it worked out for them but so, so many people don't get so lucky or are willing to take such a big risk. How many more dwarf fortresses could we have if we gave people the safety net to follow their dreams? Instead of worrying about basic necessities like food, shelter, and healthcare.

I agree there is a problem with high healthcare costs, and food costs especially now. However what we saw with covid stimulus and unemployment wasn’t the “everyone’s now an artist” outcome that is suggested with UBI. We definitely saw creatives able to express and build their visions into the world, thanks to the money and additional time. But we also saw, and still have ongoing, many people who choose not to work [0…

> but giving out money for no work (assuming one is able to work), leads to hedonic pleasures

It sounds like you think this is bad. Why?

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#226

Post by bavila »

todfox wrote: post #210
shaftoe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds interesting. What's the game?

Hazmat Hijinks. If you happen to visit the website and see the Nintendo Power-esque PDF, tell me, shouldn't that grab the attention of the right person? I know I don't have the best social understanding but I thought I nailed that one. Marketing is just so opaque. I would rather write an OS from scratch. At least I know that can be solved given enough time.

> If you happen to visit the website and see the Nintendo Power-esque PDF, tell me, shouldn't that grab the attention of the right person?

Maybe 30 years ago, but we're all (mostly) grown up now. Even for those old school gamers, I don't think it's enough to just give them something retro -- there's still got to be something new brought to the table, and I'm just not seeing it here. I'm sure it's clever and all, but when it comes down to it, most people need (not want -- need) novelty.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#227

Post by stolenmerch »

adamnemecek wrote: post #197
brundolf wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

Is it though? Show me a good Steam game that isn't selling well.

That's difficult to evaluate since "good" is subjective. So is "selling well", to be honest. I assume you mean a game that is reasonably finished and polished and not simply shovelware, but still not getting the sales to be profitable. There are tons. 30 games drop on Steam everyday. Just sort by new and see all the games that any little indie studio would be proud to release but have few sales.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#228

Post by komali2 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #164
satvikpendem wrote: post #67

I'm happy for their success. However, I'm dismayed that it was their inability to pay for healthcare that landed them in this (albeit good) situation. It's not a situation that should be forced on citizens in a modern country, for which this particular example is a feel-good ending, but there are many more (orders of magnitude more) feel-bad endings, so to speak.

They decided to live off 30k a year with no health insurance. What did they think would happen?

Would you rather live in a world where we don't have things like Dwarf Fortress? Their passion has been the game, as they understood it, they weren't able to make it and have health insurance (as I recall from the documentary, there were some issues getting remote jobs, and health insurance out of pocket is apparently prohibitively expensive in the USA).

Why are you blaming them and not the system?

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#229

Post by adventured »

brianwawok wrote: post #136
falcolas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heartbreaking. Even with millions, cancer could destroy you financially. One paramedic prices having a heart attack at about $400k pre-insurance† (or no insurance). Check those limits on your plan... † Healthline has an article with another example from 2012 priced at $500k

With millions you buy health insurance.

Along with several other supporting insurance plans that backstop your health insurance and potential healthcare costs in extreme scenarios, and so on.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#230

Post by wardedVibe »

nonethewiser wrote: post #164
satvikpendem wrote: post #67

I'm happy for their success. However, I'm dismayed that it was their inability to pay for healthcare that landed them in this (albeit good) situation. It's not a situation that should be forced on citizens in a modern country, for which this particular example is a feel-good ending, but there are many more (orders of magnitude more) feel-bad endings, so to speak.

They decided to live off 30k a year with no health insurance. What did they think would happen?

fuck the poors, right?
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