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The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

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Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree; politicians have a singular goal -- reelection. Supporting SBF at this point can only hurt. They will not be extending him any favors.

What do you expect politicians to do with respect to prosecution by the DOJ? Genuinely curious

How does political corruption work? We would need to visit a party in Washington DC to be able to describe it precisely, but it probably can be summarized as “one hand washes the other.”

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#382

From https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/sam-bankman-fried-denied-bai... : “Bankman-Fried's parents were animated during the proceeding, at times laughing or putting their fingers in their ears, according to Coindesk.” … what in the world.. I guess they really think they are going to somehow get him out of this.. how do they not understand that this type of behavior is not in any way helpful to him?

Maybe they already got their millions secured away in some untouchable country and don't really care what happens at this point.

They were already quite well off, now their son is in trouble.

"My son is going to prison but I have secured my millions so it's fine" is generally not a thing.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#383

So 4 counts on wire fraud and then also commodities fraud, securities fraud, money laundering and campaign finance laws. For the moment, if we set aside whether these will be proven, how bad does a stack of charges like this look for him if they are proven?

Knowing how connected the guy is, I'm guessing he'll only serve a few years at most. I sincerely hope I'm mistaken.

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Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#384
post #354

Direct link to PDF without Javascript: curl -s https://www.docdroid.net/kxfZltq/unsealed-indictment-in-us-v-bankman-fried-22-cr-673-abrams-as-sam-bankman-fried-of-ftx-heads-to-sdny-echoes-of-onecoin-and-un-bribery-cases-pdf \ |tr -d '\134'|sed -n 's/u0026/\&/g;s/.*\"application\/pdf\",\"uri\":\"//;s/\".*//;/https:/p' Q+D script using curl to download from "DocDroid" #!/bin/sh read X Y; unset Y;Y=${X##*/}; echo "$X" \…

This is an interesting way of writing a quick and dirty script, completely different than I would have written it (I would have definitely have used a lot more subshells, temporary variables, escaped the characters in the commands, "#" in sed instead of "/" and a lot less sed magic). If anyone is curious as it took me a bit to decipher (and I consider myself quite familiar with shell scripting!): read X Y Read the st…

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Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#385
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they already got their millions secured away in some untouchable country and don't really care what happens at this point.

They were already quite well off, now their son is in trouble. "My son is going to prison but I have secured my millions so it's fine" is generally not a thing.

Maybe he never was their favorite son anyway.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#387
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they already got their millions secured away in some untouchable country and don't really care what happens at this point.

They were already quite well off, now their son is in trouble. "My son is going to prison but I have secured my millions so it's fine" is generally not a thing.

I think that it is a thing for a shockingly large percent of parents. Historically children were the retirement plan (in addition to labor for the family). That type of thinking is fairly common.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#388
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the Madoff trustee's were able to see who received payouts from Madoff due to KYC rules. This allowed the trustee to go to people, most of whom were completely innocent, to ask the to give back some of the money they redeemed from Madoff. FTX on the other hand has very few KYC docs so the trustees are left with wallet addresses. Not sure how you contact a wallet address to ask for money back.

madoff operated from 01960 to 02008 kyc is from 02002

Even if it started before KYC was a law, it's not too hard to imagine that Madoff had better records than FTX which by all accounts was a s$&tshow

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see your honor I simply didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to siphon customer funds from one of my businesses to another. Can I truly be charged for a crime if I pretend to be dumb after I get caught?

His stupidity defense claims that he thought it was a loan, and he didn't know what Alameda Research was doing with the loan.

Still, HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO LOAN THE CUSTOMER MONEY!! If he didn't know that than why was it in the terms of service that his company wrote?

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#390

Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…

I’d be absolutely shocked if more than 25% can be recovered. They spent multi-billions on venture investments that were not just high-risk due to their early stage nature but also inextricably linked to ftx by way of the cryptocurrency market as a whole and thus about as undiversified as humanly possible. There’s a few of their investments that have value and value could be recovered through sales but almost all of t…

If we limit ourselves to depositor funds -- who morally ought to be superior creditors to investors-- I wouldn't be shocked if the recovery percentage was quite a bit larger than that.

One thing that made 90% recoveries of Madoff possible were that they first backed out all the fake gains that the customers thought they had but never actually had. This will be harder to do with FTX, but I expect that once all the bogus margin trading on fake assets is backed out we'll find that the losses were far less substantial than the numbers being thrown around.

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