It's interesting that the US gets priority on prosecution here when the losses internationally are far in excess of those of US creditors.
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The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
331–340 of 748 posts
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#332Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…
No post body was provided.
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#333Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…
> FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto)
Crypto is mostly not IOUs since it doesn’t tie to an obligation by anyone to do anything. (Explicitly redeemable tokens are IOUs, though.)
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#334Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…
Well the Madoff trustee's were able to see who received payouts from Madoff due to KYC rules. This allowed the trustee to go to people, most of whom were completely innocent, to ask the to give back some of the money they redeemed from Madoff. FTX on the other hand has very few KYC docs so the trustees are left with wallet addresses. Not sure how you contact a wallet address to ask for money back.
madoff operated from 01960 to 02008
kyc is from 02002
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#335Direct link to PDF without Javascript: curl -s https://www.docdroid.net/kxfZltq/unsealed-indictment-in-us-v-bankman-fried-22-cr-673-abrams-as-sam-bankman-fried-of-ftx-heads-to-sdny-echoes-of-onecoin-and-un-bribery-cases-pdf \ |tr -d '\134'|sed -n 's/u0026/\&/g;s/.*\"application\/pdf\",\"uri\":\"//;s/\".*//;/https:/p' Q+D script using curl to download from "DocDroid" #!/bin/sh read X Y; unset Y;Y=${X##*/}; echo "$X" \…
Thanks. We've since changed the URL from https://www.docdroid.net/kxfZltq/unsealed-indictment-in-us-v... to the proper source, which I assume is a direct link with no fuss.
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Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
OTOH, as a former public defender I have no problems talking with the police. The police aren't your friend. They're also not your enemy. Talking to the police as part of an investigation doesn't make you a suspect. Seriously, how do people think criminal investigations are done? Talking to witnesses is a huge part of investigating. People very rarely finger themselves as potential suspects; it's almost always the ot…
I can see why someone familiar with the law would be comfortable speaking with the police, but it's tough for a lay person to know if they are being lied to or will inadvertantly say something seemingly benign that causes them grief. Given that police are allowed to lie with impunity and might become your enemy, it's almost all downside for oneself to speak to them. If cops were obligated to be honest in more respect…
If the police are asking you questions, they're not lying to you...they're just asking questions.
And if the police say something seemingly benign that causes you grief, you can look forward to a large-ish settlement to make up for your troubles.
People on HN rarely interact with the police and it seems they have an unrealistic, media-driven perception of how cops actually act. For point of reference, it's the same as how non-techies assume that every tech employee can hack their way into a bank account or rig together a go-kart from spare parts.
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#337Is there some reason why this kind of stuff is typed up on a typwriter?
Various legal systems have standards for the form for which documents should be submitted to them which are surprisingly nitpicky in terms of items like fonts and spacing. Of course, these standards were created when typewriters were the dominant use case, so had deference to what typewriters could actually do. Even though most of the typewriter use has fallen out of fashion, the standards remain, with the results th…
Consistency also means that rules that state “pages” are meaningful limits, not something subject to unresitricted gaming, and that they retain that over time.
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#338I guess we'll get to see what 3 billion dollars and a well connected mother can buy you; I doubt it'll be a free pass, but I'm not expecting anything that resembles justice here.
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
Various legal systems have standards for the form for which documents should be submitted to them which are surprisingly nitpicky in terms of items like fonts and spacing. Of course, these standards were created when typewriters were the dominant use case, so had deference to what typewriters could actually do. Even though most of the typewriter use has fallen out of fashion, the standards remain, with the results th…
Doesn't explain why they'd never get with the time and accept electronic submissions, which are probably easier on their end too.
Federal courts accept (and often have rules requiring-by-default, for most purpose) electronic submission.
Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fraud is a 2b1.1 crime, so the sentence scales with the "losses" to the victims; you can get +30 levels off that alone, which catapults the sentence into double digits.
It strikes me as a weakness in our system that this is keyed to the $ amount. You can defraud a person of modest means of $50,000 and wipe them out financially; you could defraud some rich people of $2 billion without it impacting them in the slightest. This strongly incentivizes preying on the weak.
I agree, it's a weakness (maybe not for the same reasons you give, but who cares).
Anyways, my prediction is that if SBF is convicted, he is going away for all time.