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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#111
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're still not as bad as ammonia and smoke. Edit: It hit me that over the next few decades they are probably going to invent some really nasty things to put in vapes, like they did with cigarettes (that were made to be a lot worse than the "mere" nicotine and smoke inhalation of tobacco smoking), so don't read this in 20 years thinking that people in the past thought whatever they're doing in the future is safer t…

Also, at least in the US, the vehicles (solvents) are unregulated, as are the heating devices (I have been told by some vaping friends that they like the "toasted" effect at the end of a long pull, which is the polymer heating, fracturing, and crosslinking. Ugh. PEG is a common vehicle; some molecular weights are so safe they aren't even regulated (called GRAS -- "generally regarded as safe") and some are quite toxic…

Mmmm plastic lungs!

To be clear I find this absolutely horrifying. As someone with chronic respiratory limitations, it is distressing to see people damage themselves this way. It is their right, but you can't make me like it.

My aunt smoked heavily, she always said "I might as well enjoy my life, even if there are fewer years of it" or something like that. The problem with that is that you lose capacity to enjoy life and then you generally die horribly. I know there are exceptions to this - smokers with no severe impairment - but they are relatively few.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#112
While obviously smoking is bad, how is this approach acceptable and not discrimination?

Imagine if the approach to getting rid of ICE cars was to say 'nobody born after this date will ever be permitted to drive one, but a person born one day earlier can' - there'd be massive outrage.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#116

While obviously smoking is bad, how is this approach acceptable and not discrimination? Imagine if the approach to getting rid of ICE cars was to say 'nobody born after this date will ever be permitted to drive one, but a person born one day earlier can' - there'd be massive outrage.

It is discrimination. It is an acceptance that making current generations stop is more difficult than preventing future generations from starting.

>ICE cars

Common narrative is smoking is bad, whereas ICE cars still bridge a gap. ICE cars also aren't an addiction. The comparison is completely off the mark.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#117

Not to worry, the (black) market always provides. It's almost like the government is abdicating their own responsibility for regulating markets and protecting public health, and instead sanctioning criminal activity to handle the issue.

Banning cigarettes is protecting public health

[flagged]

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#118

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

I think there are levels to it though. Smoking is across the board "fucking awful". Whereas a glass of wine a day isn't going to really stress your liver (presupposing no existing issues), whereas a pack of smokes a day absolutely will do damage to your healthy lungs. Also second hand smoke is a big deal.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#119
post #79

As nonsmoker I'm strongly against this, when did alcohol prohibition, war on drugs or their COVID restrictions worked? You will just anger people and it seems completely unnecessary considering there is steady decline in smokers and there are surely more dangerous issues to deal with, in case of NZ it would be pandemic of obesity.

It can work in a country like New Zealand that has -very- tight controls and people will readily report others for breaking the law. I think it will greatly reduce smoking. I don't like it, personally, but it absolutely can work like gun laws that are applied relentlessly (see australia and england vs US gun deaths)

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#120

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

Ah well sure but when the smoking rates drop low enough, smoking related healthcare costs greatly exceed the cigarette tax receipts. NZ is a small country and needs to contain the costs of its socialised healthcare. Is there a fundamental ‘right to give money to Tobacco companies’? Buying cigarettes is banned, smoking isn’t.
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