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Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

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231–240 of 364 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I routinely hire developers in 24 hours from initial contact. It's fun watching them get random recruiter calls two or three weeks later. "I'm not interested, I STARTED my new job three weeks ago. No, I'm not willing to leave for that. Have a nice day." Except the "Have a nice day" part is usually less friendly and polite.

How can either side get an accurate assessment of the other in such a short time? I was hired by my current employer in less than 2 weeks from initial conversation and it was a bit of a smell that they weren't more thorough. Now I'm a hiring manager and am a little concerned with what I feel are "loose" practices that let too many marginal candidates through because otherwise "it's too hard to source talent". For me…

So you spend significantly more than a day on assessment for each individual candidate? Because if you don't, quick turnaround times are mostly a scheduling problem.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#232

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads.

This is one number, which even if it is true doesn’t matter. There are so many easy way to increase the number of applicants like posting it in linkedin, decreasing number of years of experience in posting(which are more often than not, not a hard limit for job) etc. They want to decrease the applicants if at all while keeping the number of new hires same.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#233

Conflict-of-interest evident in the HN re-title-fication of this post. Recall that making something less salacious when you are the subject is quite different from toning down clickbait headlines when you're wearing your neutral-editorial hat. Original title was 'Why are some YC companies breaking the law?' And frankly, that's a great question. Admittedly not-so-great is the absence of any specific example on the OP,…

I changed the title as part of moderating this thread less than we normally would. We moderate HN threads less, not more, when YC or YC startups are part of the story—this has been established practice since the beginning: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

The way we'd normally moderate a thread like this is by downweighting it as a generic riler-upper (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...). Posts like the OP are extremely common, because the internet is perpetually noticing something seemingly outrageous, jumping to the most extreme interpretation, exclaiming angrily, and then egging itself on. That's how the medium works. If we didn't downweight such posts, the front page would be be nothing but sensational/indignant material; there'd be no room for anything else. This is a no-brainer as a moderation call, and this practice has also been established on HN since the beginning. However, because the thread mentions YC startups, I haven't touched it or done what we normally would.

Editing sensational/indignant titles to be more neutral and reflect the substance of a story (not that there's really a story here) is another well-established moderation practice on HN, again for what ought to be obvious reasons: if we didn't do it, then the front page would consist of nothing but that. So in this case I limited myself to the minimum viable title edit, while letting the post continue to burn at a much higher rank on the front page than it would ever normally get away with.

For me the real conflict or tradeoff here is: how do we balance the need to not suppress criticisms (even when they are unfair or untrue—because the good will of the community is more important, in fact it's the only asset HN really has), with the need to preserve HN for its intended purpose. The ecosystem is fragile and takes a lot of tending to, and one of the most important forms of tending—which only moderators can really provide—is to not allow garden-variety internet indignation to drown out the quieter, more interesting material that HN is supposed to be for. It should be clear why the rule is "we moderate less when YC is the story", rather than "we moderate not at all"—the latter would be a loophole you could drive a convoy of trucks through.

Therefore, when I asked myself what was the minimum reasonable thing to do, editing the sensational or (to use your word) salacious title to accurate reflect what (little) substance the post actually included, while not downweighting the submission the way we usually would, seemed to me the right tradeoff. This post doesn't deserve the hours on the front page that it's getting, but that's the local price we pay in favor of a global optimization.

Edit: I changed the title again after posting this, in response to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33973106, which made a fair point.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#234
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no opinion about these laws but: > * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. might not be what you want. You might want the best engineers who you will have to make exceptions for in their TC

My unsolicited advice (for founders) is to hire the best people you can afford. I've seen startups blow 2-3 headcount worth of budget to secure a FAANG engineer, only to realize that engineer needed an SRE to deploy their code, a tools engineer to setup their CI/CD, etc. The founders were so excited to add "FAANG engineer" to their Series A deck. Firing this engineer was tough because the startup went to the board to…

A CEO eventually has to develop the courage to deliver bad news to the board.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Never assume someone will do the right or legal thing, regardless of status or PR. Can’t explain the Stockholm Syndrome (“but the ones who seem to take offense at the notion that YC might have even a sliver of responsibility here”), people can be emotional, irrational creatures due to life experience and belief systems. But Sequoia lost $200M on a fraud having done zero due diligence, s…

I'm glad this took off. I think some of the posts were fixed!! :)

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#236

The real question is why HN is filled with people that have values completely orthogonal to the VC space, like people wanting to leverage the law to make other people do things.

I would hope that 'compliance with the law' is not 'completely orthogonal to the VC space' but I've seen an awful lot over the years.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I routinely hire developers in 24 hours from initial contact. It's fun watching them get random recruiter calls two or three weeks later. "I'm not interested, I STARTED my new job three weeks ago. No, I'm not willing to leave for that. Have a nice day." Except the "Have a nice day" part is usually less friendly and polite.

In most small companies you send in your CV, they bring you in for an interview, chat for an hour or so and get an offer the next day. The only reason big companies do these massive complex multi-hour interview processes that require ten plus people is because nobody wants to take responsibility for a shitty hire so they make sure everyone gets involved so it can’t be blamed on a single person.

This is true, but I'd still rather come in for an entire day and interview with 6 different people and get a thumbs up/down the same or next day versus come in for a single 1 hr interview then get called back for a second interview a few days later and then a third interview a week after that and then not get a decision for a week or two after the final interview. The latter used to be way more common with non-tech companies in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#238
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, to me, is a really good signal of how well run a company is. After all, a company is merely a collection of people on whom its outcomes are entirely dependent. Thus, the single most important function a company can perform is hiring. If a company fails to recognize this or just does it incompetently, its probably a crappy company. Thus, slow responses == crappy company.

I would postulate the single most important thing a company can do is make money. Hiring is also important though.

Companies with poor hiring likely don't make money. There maybe a select few that have such a desirable product that they cannot help themselves. Usually that is short lived as competition eats your lunch because your crappy employees cannot adapt.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#239
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

posting a number can help confident people but hurts others example, developer makes 100k, has imposter syndrome, sees a great job that has an internal range of 150k-200k. if the dev knew the range they’d think no way they would qualify for THAT much money. the company would happily pay at bottom range for them, but instead they don’t even see the developer. ranges select for confident people.

OK. Let's take it as read that ranges discourage the uncertain and nervous. How should companies go about posting ads that treats those people compassionately and puts them on an event footing with confident people? Preferably while not denying people who would like to see it useful information?

my point was that ranges can hurt

maybe a solution is to have a website that had to post a range but also require them to post it on another site where ranges are not allowed

so those that want to see jobs and not be distracted by $ can do so

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#240
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it was a mistake/typo (someone confused "paternity" for the general term).

Probably this. I'm also second guessing myself that _I_ didn't read it wrong lol

Fun to watch young tech companies learn how to do HR in real time!
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