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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#91

Post by urthor »

chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

> do you really want to trust your personal decisions on health, diet, and entertainment to those elected via a popularity contest?

Yes.

Read the history of Teddy Roosevelt & the Food and Drug Administration. https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/fda-history

If you're familiar with the political culture of Australasia, you'll realise it's an overwhelming "nanny state" culture.

Also, you'll realise that Australia/New Zealand have the highest HDI indicators of any nation globally with mean winter temperatures above 10 degree Celsius.

Why?

Because Australia and New Zealand have a particular cultural value others don't.

They trust technocratic experts to know what's best for people. And implement.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#92

Post by gleenn »

chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

Can I play devil's advocate and say it's not black and white, and currently a lot of people make really bad decisions and the worst ones are the ones that affect surrounding people. Vaccines are another hot-button issue where making the wrong choice causes you harm and those around you as does smoking. I lived in Japan for a year and never smoked in my life but probably "smoked" a hundred packs after being in some environments. You can argue to avoid such environments but the logical extreme of that is people being forced to stay inside for fear of unvaccinated people. There is clearly some gray area here IMHO.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#93

Post by CharlesW »

chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

> I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked.

It sounds like you're saying that their freedom to inflict harm on you was more important than your freedom from the harmful health effects of secondhand smoke. Can that be true?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#94

Post by burnished »

petodo wrote: post #87
burnished wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absurdly addictive. And as I understand it smoking as we know it has more to do with marketing and the intentional suppression of research indicating serious harm than anything else. Hell, I might liken it to generational trauma. I’m not sure of the specifics. Does the law prevent you from growing and curing your own tobacco? There might be something important there - I don’t think folks would make their own cig…

Quoted post unavailable.

Sorry, I was here to participate in a genuine conversation, if you are here to score cheap points can you instead do it elsewhere?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#95

Post by vkou »

hedora wrote: post #45
blackoil wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prohibition has always been a questionable idea Any data on it having counter effect on the actual consumption and prevelance? I believe are the negatives were secondary but it was effective in primary goals.

When the US raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, binge drinking in college skyrocketed. Alcohol producers are now some of the staunchest defenders of our current drinking age.

The problem here seems cultural, not legal. College dorms and frathouses seem like the perfect climate for creating a culture of binge-drinking.

1. A bunch of dumb, young adults.

2. Sent away from home to live together, with only their peers for role models.

3. With few responsibilities, and not enough schoolwork to do to keep themselves busy.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect any outcome that didn't include way too many drugs and way too much partying. The drinking age isn't a problem, that set of inputs would produce the exact same thing, whether it was 18, 19, or 35.

If you actually want to solve college binge drinking, kill the frat life, close down all the dorms for local students, and have them commute to school.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#96

Post by thatguy0900 »

worik wrote: post #85
thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

> Alcohol is also objectively bad, Alcohol is a wonderful drug in low doses. It is a social lubricant, relieves stress, lowers inhibitions. It is possible to use alcohol without it being very bad for you.

A lot of people recreationally smoke cigars and would say the exact same words about it.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#98

Post by [deleted] »

CharlesW wrote: post #93
chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

> I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. It sounds like you're saying that their freedom to inflict harm on you was more important than your freedom from the harmful health effects of secondhand smoke. Can that be true?

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#99

Post by auveair »

megatest123 wrote: post #53
wintogreen74 wrote: post #51

I really like a lot of what comes out of NZ, but not this sort of nanny state action. I believe it will have all sorts of negative consequences out of the public light and control. It's a high-level combination of "Won't someone think of the children?" and "Do as I say, not as I do". Definitively a political winner that doesn't impact anyone of voting age for the current crop of NZ politicians.

> I believe it will have all sorts of negative consequences out of the public light and control. Can you please name some?

Loss of freedom for one, just one more thing the government chose for my body because they "know best"

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#100

Post by [deleted] »

gleenn wrote: post #92
chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

Can I play devil's advocate and say it's not black and white, and currently a lot of people make really bad decisions and the worst ones are the ones that affect surrounding people. Vaccines are another hot-button issue where making the wrong choice causes you harm and those around you as does smoking. I lived in Japan for a year and never smoked in my life but probably "smoked" a hundred packs after being in some en…

[deleted]
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