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Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#221

Post by wpietri »

gregjor wrote: post #147
wpietri wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, are you sure you're replying to the right person? The one saying this happened is not me. I'm replying to a specific point about the extent to which YC would want to prevent this from happening. I'll also note that the person who did post about this perhaps left the company names out because they were being considerate, not wanting to invite trouble for people who could be entirely well meaning when they are j…

I did think you wrote the original post. My mistake, I have corrected my comment. Whether YC would want to prevent illegal or unethical behavior is a question I can't answer. I would hope so. But I don't think it's reasonable to put the burden of enforcing various employment posting laws on YC/HN, especially when the laws are new and have jurisdiction questions and exceptions. My reading of the NYC law tells me job b…

> I don't object to a discussion about what responsibility YC and HN have

How very generous of you to allow us to discuss things.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#222

Post by xyzelement »

ipaddr wrote: post #206
endtime wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started a new job in April. The hiring process was quite slow and disorganized, but included in that were three separate "interviews" with my now-manager. I thought this was great - I felt like I really understood who I'd be working for and what I was getting into. And now that I've joined I understand that he was simply doing the same thing: getting to know me; making sure I wasn't someone good at technical interv…

3 times with the same person? Yikes.. this is a much bigger red flag than getting hired in 24 hours. That tells me they are unsure of me or themselves getting an offer on the spot is a sign they actually need to fill the position and they believe you can

To me it just sounds like a small scale operation and the manager is being careful which is great.

Perhaps what happened after the first two meetings, the manager sat down and analyzed his list of reasons he's excited about the candidate as well as any potential concerns that he saw.

The subsequent rounds may have in part been structured to dig into the areas of concerns to assure themselves they aren't real issues or can be lived with.

This wouldn't scale at a FAANG but for a smaller shop it's probably close to optimal.

I didn't marry my wife after our first date :)

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#223

Post by pixl97 »

gregjor wrote: post #93
shanebellone wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP didn't accuse. OP pointed out. NY evidently requires pay ranges. This job posting did not include the required pay range. There are also zero posts disparaging the company, YC, or HN. Any particular range you're upset about this?

The original post title: "Why are YC companies breaking hiring laws?" I read that as an accusation. OP did not name any specific companies supposedly breaking hiring laws. New York City started requiring salary ranges in job postings for most companies (not all) just a few weeks ago. I would interpret a few job postings that don't include salaries as oversights or perhaps companies exempt from the law (which has a fe…

Why are you so heavily invested in this accusation? HN is completely capable of responding to any accusations properly.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#224

Post by ghaff »

JackFr wrote: post #213
ollien wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been through a process that took 4 months, from start to end, with almost two months of silence between. The only reason I knew I wasn't rejected was I had a friend on the inside.

I had a 4 month hiring process - but in fairness they were very transparent. Early on in the process I was warned it would take a long time, and at each step along the way it was made clear what was happening. There was never a feeling of being half ghosted. Wasn’t a bad experience at all.

I got a new job long before COVID--so mostly in-person process--and it was about a 3 month process. But a lot of it was I was interviewing with people who traveled a lot and getting on calendars even with flexibility on my part (I was very local) just took time.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#225

Post by xyzelement »

robomartin wrote: post #181
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly A friend of mine is superbly qualified for a job posted by Apple. She applied for this job expecting a reasonably quick reply. What I mean by "superbly qualified" is that she is a recognized expert in the domain, has conducted seminars attended by hundreds of engineers and business people and, back in the day, was actually invited by Steve Jobs to come to Cuperti…

I feel for your friend but this sounds naive.

Public job postings get hundreds or thousands of applications, most of which are terrible and need to be filtered out. Expecting an immediate response on one is not reasonable.

If your friend is such an industry insider, it's surprising she didn't have a network that could short circuit this process for her.

In general, my experience that if you are cold-applying for a job, you are very likely to get lost in a pile of trash. The recruiting experience is much better if the company finds out about you on their own and goes after you. Having an internal referral is a form of that.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#226

Post by godelski »

pitaj wrote: post #201
barbazoo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it's "parental leave" :)

I suspect it was a mistake/typo (someone confused "paternity" for the general term).

Probably this. I'm also second guessing myself that _I_ didn't read it wrong lol

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#227

Post by 1attice »

Conflict-of-interest evident in the HN re-title-fication of this post.

Recall that making something less salacious when you are the subject is quite different from toning down clickbait headlines when you're wearing your neutral-editorial hat.

Original title was 'Why are some YC companies breaking the law?' And frankly, that's a great question.

Admittedly not-so-great is the absence of any specific example on the OP, but that's another matter.

The post is about law-abidingness and to change that to protect YC on a chat board run by YC is sketch, YC.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#228

Post by neilv »

bin_bash wrote: post #124
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. I've noticed my interest in a job tends to drop consistently the longer it takes for a response. This isn't surprising at all. I don't think it's because we're fickle, it's more that right when you apply you can picture what it mig…

> I've noticed my interest in a job tends to drop consistently the longer it takes for a response.

As a software engineer with a long track record, I somehow only just realized this about myself within the last couple months.

With the two fresh data points I have in mind, it wasn't about perceived likelihood of an offer, but about perceived likelihood of it being a good situation if I accepted the offer.

Delays (especially after a great initial call) can be felt as signal about how much they value the role, whether they're excited about me specifically for it (both of which can make the difference between a great role and an awful one), and how well they can execute (e.g., do they have a clout deficit or a huge-corporate bureaucracy that would also be a problem getting things done there).

And if there's a recruiter, HR middleperson, or other communication barrier -- blocking the normal ability to read people and pick up on clues, from direct interaction with a hiring manager or team member -- this signal can be all we have to go on.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#229

Post by hellweaver666 »

indymike wrote: post #105
yamtaddle wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application. A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. My experience with being hired at non-FAANG places over a career of more than two decades is that I'm usually through a process and h…

I routinely hire developers in 24 hours from initial contact. It's fun watching them get random recruiter calls two or three weeks later. "I'm not interested, I STARTED my new job three weeks ago. No, I'm not willing to leave for that. Have a nice day." Except the "Have a nice day" part is usually less friendly and polite.

In most small companies you send in your CV, they bring you in for an interview, chat for an hour or so and get an offer the next day. The only reason big companies do these massive complex multi-hour interview processes that require ten plus people is because nobody wants to take responsibility for a shitty hire so they make sure everyone gets involved so it can’t be blamed on a single person.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#230

Post by mywittyname »

twelve40 wrote: post #126
indymike wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can dive through US DOL JOLTS report if you want to understand this. Big tech did layoffs. IT departments still need people.

you'd think it's on the person making the statement about IT hiring numbers to do the diving.

It's a pain to link to the BLS data, since you have to generate a report which needs POST data in order to display properly.

I went and found the data and it maps with what indymike is saying. Layoffs are up, but not abnormally so (in line with previous years), while hiring is down compared to last year, it remains well above pre-2020 figure.

Overall, it looks like the IT job market is the best its ever been by a 20% margin, aside from 2021, which was slightly better than this year.

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