Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok • Hacker News Board

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#291

Post by LarryMullins » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:41 PM UTC

KMag wrote: post #274

UltraViolence wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Zuckerberg even married an ethnic Chinese woman in order to get a leg up on accessing the Chinese market. Do you have a credible citation for this, or are you making an assumption that there would be no more compelling reasons for Zuck to marry someone who's ethnically Chinese? (Asking for my ethnically 3/4 Chinese wife, my cousin's ethnically Chinese husband, and plenty of other European/Chinese mixed ancestry mar…

I think that claim is probably not true; they met in college many years before business in China was realistically on Zuckerberg's radar. However it is certainly true that Zuckerberg has sucked up to the CCP, going so far ask to ask Xi Jinping to name his unborn child. Nauseating servility on a personal level.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/china-s-president-...

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#292

Post by LarryMullins » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

jzmorganchase wrote: post #281

LarryMullins wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the biggest concern is still Chinese ownership of US customer data. This legislation doesn't ban all Chinese government controlled apps that users might share their data with, only those that are social media specifically. If users cannot view content generated by other users, then it isn't social media and isn't banned by this bill. If the app doesn't sell digital advertising space, then it isn't social me…

Ok what’s your point?

That this is not the real motivation of the bill: "the biggest concern is still Chinese ownership of US customer data."

The bill doesn't address Chinese ownership of US customer data. The bill is specifically about social media, and doesn't apply generally to other Chinese companies that also suck up US customer data.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#293

Post by hereme888 » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

_michaelll wrote: post #246

hereme888 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "attack" is equivalent of trying to rescue opioid addicts from heroin. Or like you said, cracking down on raves (because we all know what really fuels and motivates those parties. I hope more ethical companies take over the void. In fact, I see YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter in a position to fill the void since they've introduced "shorts" and some things similar to tik tok.

> more ethical companies... YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter What do you use as the measurement for more ethical in this case? I see the companies you mentioned completely equivalent(all pretty bad) in terms of making choices that are best for our shared society.

By more ethical I mean companies that don't share data with a literal enemy, like the CCP.

I'm all about passing very strong laws and lawsuits against big tech for their continued abuse despite previous wrist slaps.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#294

Post by game_the0ry » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

A ban is not the answer to the problem of addictive social media platforms. A new platform will likely take its place, and then we will be having the same problem. The solution is for all of us to be aware the danger that social media has on us and our children, then adjust our behaviors so as to not let social media have a negative, but positive, effect on our lives.

Of course that won't happen bc that would take discipline and personal responsibility.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#295

Post by hereme888 » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #245

hereme888 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "attack" is equivalent of trying to rescue opioid addicts from heroin. Or like you said, cracking down on raves (because we all know what really fuels and motivates those parties. I hope more ethical companies take over the void. In fact, I see YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter in a position to fill the void since they've introduced "shorts" and some things similar to tik tok.

There are no ethical companies in the social media space - they're all trying to maximize engagement and manipulate you for economic gain. This is more like telling opioid addicts: "don't take that Chinese heroin, use our home-grown stuff instead".

I agree that there are no ethical social media companies (except maybe the "decentralized" ones like Mastodon perhaps). By more ethical I mean companies that don't share data with a literal enemy, like the CCP.

I'm all about passing very strong laws and lawsuits against big tech for their continued abuse despite previous wrist slaps.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#296

Post by jonathankoren » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:46 PM UTC

1attice wrote: post #290

jonathankoren wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data storage regulations are boring poindexter. We need lines like, “TikTok is digital fentanyl.”

Language like this exaggerates individual-user harms of TikTok by comparison to lethal street drug, conflating them with public, national-interest harms. This is disingenous, as reported by common-sense. For example, my city does not have sidewalks lined with tents full of TikTok users, but the same cannot be said of the comparand. This has either or both of the following knock-on effects: - Undermine trust in the sp…

Mix in the fact that you can't die by simply walking past fentanyl or even touching it like the copaganda says, and you're on to something.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#297

Post by pfisherman » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:46 PM UTC

Well the world is catching up to how social media apps / sites can be used as tools of statecraft by the countries that control them.

If you were in charge of national defense would you allow a potential adversary unfettered access to map out and leverage the social networks of your citizenry for their information operations? No one in their right mind would do that. If I were a country not aligned with the US, I would ban all US based social media apps / sites.

I think that there is an argument to made for a culture of free access to content / information in the US. But one must also keep in mind that (a) unlike broadcasts or pamphlets the flow of information here is bidirectional, (b) entities outside the US are certainly not entitled to information about US citizens, and (c) entities operating outside of the US are not necessarily subject to US laws which includes first amendment protections.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#298

Post by Mountain_Skies » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

maria2 wrote: post #111

mrtksn wrote: post #7

Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? I'm really hoping this doesn't become a reality because if it does, we will end up with partitioned internet and stagnation. People often forget that the US companies are foreign entity for most of the worlds population and with the WikiLeaks revelations we know for a fact that the US government has access to the data of American tech compani…

This has nothing to do with user data. People are influenced by the content they see on social media. Allowing a foreign adversary to run the main information network for an entire generation of the population is not a wise move.

HN posters are in love with the "people are too stupid to think for themselves and need me to protect them" narrative. Nowhere else do I see that line of thought as frequently as I see it here. Not even Reddit pushes that justification for controlling the ability of others to access whatever media sources they want as much as it is pushed here. We truly must be the intellectual giants of humanity to know so consistently what is best for everyone else.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#299

Post by LarryMullins » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #275

LarryMullins wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly Europe would be better off if they took this approach and banned all American apps. American techies have no respect for European privacy laws and will never faithfully follow the spirit of such laws, or even the letter.

The biggest issue with this is also needing to adopt OSes and programming languages that aren't controlled by US companies.

I think the longer they wait, the worse it will hurt.

They're caught in a bramble bush and getting themselves unstuck is going to get them scratched up. But the longer they put off freeing themselves, the more the bramble grows around them. They should have done it years ago. They should do it now, before the "Trusted Computing" trap slams shut forever.

Re: Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok

#300

Post by Analemma_ » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #7

Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? I'm really hoping this doesn't become a reality because if it does, we will end up with partitioned internet and stagnation. People often forget that the US companies are foreign entity for most of the worlds population and with the WikiLeaks revelations we know for a fact that the US government has access to the data of American tech compani…

Partitioned Internet is a foregone conclusion. There was no way that sovereign states were ever going to permanently allow the uninhibited cross-border exchange that characterized the early Internet before anyone was paying attention. It was just a question of when they caught up.