Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America • Hacker News Board

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#191

Post by kodyo » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #23

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

I don't understand why politicians (in the UK) always seem to be scared of legalisation when there's a huge amount of tax that could be generated from it and meanwhile, criminals get all the money and taxpayers have to spend more money trying to catch those criminals.

The last thing a bureaucracy built to solve a problem wants to do is solve the problem.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#192

Post by razakel » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #32

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the UK have those bizarrely obtuse not-an-ad-for-prescription ads like in Canada?

I can't think of any although maybe some erectile dysfunction drugs are (don't know if they're prescription only or not). Otherwise, there's ads for cold remedies, cough medicine and analgesics. The idea of advertising prescription drugs seems bizarre to me as surely you'd want your doctor's opinion, not whatever's on daytime TV

Viagra is now over-the-counter in the UK. It's only legal to advertise General Sales List (stuff anyone can sell, like aspirin) and Pharmacy (can only be sold by a pharmacist, like co-codamol) medicines to the public. Prescription drugs can only be advertised to medical professionals.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#193

Post by alphabettsy » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

slfnflctd wrote: post #63

Black market opiate & opioid users need to get off the danger train and start taking kratom. It may not get you quite as 'high', but it can stave off cravings and withdrawal symptoms, and help you find stability. Harm reduction is a viable solution.

You’re probably right, but Kratom would then be banned. They’re not going for harm reduction, otherwise they would make it easier for people to get and use drugs like Methadone.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#194

Post by silisili » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

DrBazza wrote: post #5

Sort-of-related, for Americans reading this, from a Brit, when I watch US TV programmes, the inclusion of drugs (prescription and illegal) in scripts is so matter-of-fact, it's actually shocking. Comparing like-for-like programs (police dramas, hospital dramas, thrillers), the UK version will invariably have entirely different plots. Sure the US != UK, but it's so weird. Isn't the USA the only country other than NZ t…

The TV advertising is really gross and annoying. And IMO, gotten much worse in recent years.

I hadn't watched TV in years before I went to Southeast Asia. I always laughed that it seemed all the commercials were for coffee and beauty products, rarely anything else.

Then I happened to catch live TV for the first time in a while after I returned, and realized it seemed 80% of the commercials were for random drugs. It made me wish we had more coffee and beauty product commercials!

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#195

Post by alphabettsy » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #152

The US would really benefit from a strong southern border. That's obviously a politically loaded statement, but just take it at face value. There is such a thing as borders. The US needs to stop the flow of illegal shit across the southern border. I know this won't solve 100% of the fentanyl issues. Low hanging fruit, and all that. Start somewhere.

Most of the Fentanyl comes through the border checkpoints, not around it according to everything I’ve seen. It’s security theater just like the TSA.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#196

Post by alphabettsy » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #170

Washington (democrats and republicans, including Obama and Trump) did as they were paid to do. The Sackler family did this on purpose, as their parents did with Benzos and other painkillers. They purposely increased the addictiveness then lied about it. Then the government gave them immunity after their deadly product killed hundreds of thousands to millions of Americans.

Maybe, but all of the addicts I know or have known started out using them recreationally and got addicted. People taking them for physical pain also know when they’re getting addicted, when you get sick from missing your dose. Maybe there’s still too much stigma to ask for help.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#197

Post by alldayeveryday » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #175

alldayeveryday wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 1920, still a significant part of the population lived in absolutely abhorrent slums. Define significant part. There are people in 2020 living in absolutely abhorrent slums. Most major US cities have areas meeting this definition. > People on average worked 60 hours weeks, Unsure if this is true. Even if it is, probably more accurate to say of those people who worked, they worked an average of 60 hours per week.…

> Define significant part. There are people in 2020 living in absolutely abhorrent slums. Most major US cities have areas meeting this definition. The 1920 slums meant living at 5-10 people per room, with no running water, in constant stench from the nearby factories. I doubt you can find many places like that in US today. > Unsure if this is true. That's what the data I've found says - average time worked in non-agr…

So you seem to agree that 2020 and 1920 look very different, as far as the environment that people found themselves in. You seem to take issue with my claim that things have not improved for the better. Lets agree here instead that that some aspects of the environment are better and others are worse.

Going back to the subject at hand (fentanyl use), I think one can safely state that more people are dying from drug overdoses and suicide than they were in other decades in US history. Is it people who have changed, or their environment? And do you disagree that there is a correlation? Certainly there has to be. Availability of fentanyl correlates with fentanyl deaths, whereas unavailability of fentanyl would correlate with lack of fentanyl deaths. And so all the ways that the environment of 2020 is now better than in 1920, seems not to translate to less drug overdoses and suicides. And I can think of no better indicator of quality of life, than the indicator of how many people are choosing death over living.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#198

Post by Gordonjcp » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

chownie wrote: post #24

Gordonjcp wrote: post #9

Is this somehow different fentanyl for the stuff that in the UK gets handed out in litre bottles to old ladies with dodgy hips? Because the whole point of fentanyl is the massive therapeutic window and difficulty of overdosing.

Are you thinking of Oramorph? I know a bunch of older ladies who use it because they have nerve pain, it's derivative of poppies/opium so it's morphine rather than fentanyl.

No, definitely Fentanyl. Oramorph is pretty tightly regulated.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#199

Post by 082349872349872 » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:23 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #184

umeshunni wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, everything you laid out is perfectly logical and what they should be doing, but unfortunately, progressive politics in the US philosophically opposed to enforcing camping and theft laws. E.g., in San Francisco, it’s legal to steal under $900.

No it's not, stop spreading misinformation. It's illegal as it always has been, and stop listening to police about why they do what they do. They are not honest about it and their incentives and motives are easy to decipher once you choose to. Homeless people aren't camping! That's where they live. If you want to make homelessness a crime you could prosecute landlords who evict people with nowhere to go. Why isn't th…

> The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#200

Post by 2devnull » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:47 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #189

WillPostForFood wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is surprisingly hard to get the actual data for fentanyl/opioid overdoses, even though the numbers are on the CDC site, just spread out in multiple places.

I'm not usually into conspiracy theories, but it has the flavor of "bury this without outright lying" .

You suspect the CDC would massage their messaging to manipulate (nudge?) public opinion towards achieving a desired outcome, rather than just straightforward factual scientific reporting the likes of which most people would expect?