Not to worry, the (black) market always provides.
It's almost like the government is abdicating their own responsibility for regulating markets and protecting public health, and instead sanctioning criminal activity to handle the issue.
New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
11–20 of 227 posts
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#12> New Zealand's smoking rate is already at historic lows, with just 8% of adults smoking daily according to government statistic released in November - down from 9.4% last year. if this was accomplished without prohibitions, how many negative consequences (black markets, organized crime, smuggling, adulterated cigarettes) is NZ willing to tolerate to get to zero? One would think that at some point, you get down to a…
The point of the law is to prevent anyone born after 2008 from buying cigarettes. Hardcore users that are older than that can continue to purchase tobacco.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#13How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…
This is a totally reasonable point. Interestingly, so is its inversion: "How thoughtful of the grown ups to prevent harm to other people, even knowing it won't save themselves."
But I don't understand that, if we're operating on under the premise that smoking is bad for all (which it is), then why not ban it for all now? Thats sets a horrible precedent.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#14How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…
But I wonder how many people with COPD due to smoking would say "I am really glad I have been smoking and would never give it up" ?
That is the thing, people start at a young age because it is "cool", when they get old, they wish they never started. I never meet a longtime smoker who has never tried to quit. Eventually many just give up trying to quit.
I wonder how enforceable this law is ? I suspect illegal markets are already being planned :)
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#15> New Zealand's smoking rate is already at historic lows, with just 8% of adults smoking daily according to government statistic released in November - down from 9.4% last year. if this was accomplished without prohibitions, how many negative consequences (black markets, organized crime, smuggling, adulterated cigarettes) is NZ willing to tolerate to get to zero? One would think that at some point, you get down to a…
The point of the law is to prevent anyone born after 2008 from buying cigarettes. Hardcore users that are older than that can continue to purchase tobacco.
Right, those born after 2008 will have to buy their cigarettes illegally.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a totally reasonable point. Interestingly, so is its inversion: "How thoughtful of the grown ups to prevent harm to other people, even knowing it won't save themselves."
But I don't understand that, if we're operating on under the premise that smoking is bad for all (which it is), then why not ban it for all now? Thats sets a horrible precedent.
It's kind of a harm reduction-style argument. The premise here is that banning smoking for a group more likely to already be addicted might be a non-starter, so let's at least reduce harm where we can.
A fairer way might be to say "people that don't already have an established history of smoking can never buy cigarettes going forward", but that immediately creates an unhealthy incentive for everyone to go out and buy their first pack right now.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a totally reasonable point. Interestingly, so is its inversion: "How thoughtful of the grown ups to prevent harm to other people, even knowing it won't save themselves."
But I don't understand that, if we're operating on under the premise that smoking is bad for all (which it is), then why not ban it for all now? Thats sets a horrible precedent.
Any credence to it's better to prevent someone from starting than trying to get someone to stop? Trying to find a way to see this from a positive view than the super cynical way it comes across. I know I'm stretching for it, and it kind of hurts.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a totally reasonable point. Interestingly, so is its inversion: "How thoughtful of the grown ups to prevent harm to other people, even knowing it won't save themselves."
But I don't understand that, if we're operating on under the premise that smoking is bad for all (which it is), then why not ban it for all now? Thats sets a horrible precedent.
Because older people already got addicted while it was legal
seems like a pragmatic decision
(and... "sets a horrible precedent" for what?)
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#19How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…
> Alcohol is also objectively bad, why not implement this for alchohol?
Well we both know that will never happen. But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so.
If Cost is NZ only concern, they can always charge more for healthcare for people who drink/smoke, price depends upon length of use. But we all know that will never work. Where I work, just about everyone when signing up for healthcare always ticks the "I do not smoke" box to get a cheaper rate. And I doubt there is a sure fire way to verify how much people smoke or imbibe over their lifetime.
Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations
#20How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…
But I wonder how many people with COPD due to smoking would say "I am really glad I have been smoking and would never give it up" ? That is the thing, people start at a young age because it is "cool", when they get old, they wish they never started. I never meet a longtime smoker who has never tried to quit. Eventually many just give up trying to quit. I wonder how enforceable this law is ? I suspect illegal markets…
Ehh, there are a lot of people who really like to smoke and are filly aware of COPD and emphysema etc.
One thing I suspect is potentially operative is that the long term health of people in general is much better.
Previous generations could happily write off the last 5 or 10 years of their life, and that's just not as true today.