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On Twitch, you can never log off

every.to

171–180 of 235 posts

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#171
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious here as I dont think I have ever watched anyone on twitch. Compared to software dev as an example - a very mentally taxing job, what comparable challenges do twitch streamers have?

Small: having to deal with a long period of absolutely nothing and constant nagging that you may not be good enough / doing something wrong / etc. Most people do very poorly with prolonged periods of almost no feedback. Large: dealing with managing large amounts of social relationships of a community which, let's just say, likes pushing a lot of fringe demands and just a lot of demands in general. Also having to be '…

Also - you're performing in front of an audience. This is something that can feel stressful in itself, especially when certain individuals in that audience become difficult to deal with. You need to perform at a high level, but you also need to focus on a live chat, unless you're so big that that has become impossible.

Over the longer term you also have the additional problem that you need to keep that audience. What if you're really good at a certain card game that is popular in 2014 and gain a large audience - but then they make changes to it, you get terribly burnt out on it, and would like to do something else, but whenever you do, your viewer count drops massively. Or maybe the successor to a game comes out and turns out poorly, and viewer count for both drops massively afterwards due to a loss of popularity? Your niche can disappear overnight.

Sure, if you make it to the top 0.5%, you'll be quite comfortable. If you don't, you'll be living somewhat precariously unless you do it purely as a hobby and treat your 10 regular viewers as a friend group.

I tried streaming the game of Go purely for fun for a few weeks. It was an interesting experience. Some very nice interactions with a handful of viewers who tuned in, but also one case of backseating (viewers trying to play the game for you), and the difficulty of concentrating on two different things going on at the same time. I found it demanding.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#172
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pays for all their food expenses, plus some extra stuff. As I said, the stream has a higher amount of people who donate than usual. Several years ago, I watched a gaming streamer, even smaller. She lived in Croatia, and just the subs and irregular donations were enough to pay for most of her daily expenses.

So, an average person can make a living wage on income from YouTube/Twitch royalties?

I don't know what you consider an average person vs royality, buy yes, there's quite many people I'd consider "average" that makes their living from Youtube - most seem to be starting at around 50k-100k subscribers before it becomes feasible.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#173

Seems like a lot of streamers think that streaming = not working. By the time they realize streaming is a job, they're burnt out. I respect the hell out of Ludwig for this. He treats streaming like a business, and his success speaks for itself. He doesn't foster parasocial relationships, and he avoids as much of the petty streamer drama that he possibly can. He's now transitioned towards large productions that draw i…

Ludwig's fan interaction is still too para-social IMO, despite him trying to step away from it. In some sense Sykkyno would be a better example who actually distances himself really away from over interactions with fans and seems really in control of his life.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#175

I think a more interesting story would be about the people that grind for years and years and never make it. You're left without a useful skill and no money, and probably a deficit on your mental health because you didn't go out and talk to people in real life for years. I think its not at all worth getting into as a career because making it big is like starting out as an actor, you have to know people. If you hit it…

The folks who don't make it are an interesting group on their own. Something like 95% of streamers have under five viewers, and the majority of those have exactly zero viewers. Thinking about all those thousands of people broadcasting day in and out to exactly nobody is kind of fascinating. It's not like broadcasting on a ham radio or shouting into the aether or blogging on a little independent site thinking that may…

Doesn't seem too different to most musicians having zero audience outside friends.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#176
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The folks who don't make it are an interesting group on their own. Something like 95% of streamers have under five viewers, and the majority of those have exactly zero viewers. Thinking about all those thousands of people broadcasting day in and out to exactly nobody is kind of fascinating. It's not like broadcasting on a ham radio or shouting into the aether or blogging on a little independent site thinking that may…

The stats are a bit skewed I think, because you have to have an account on twitch to participate as a consumer on twitch, so all those 0 view streamers are very possibly people who are actually consumers and had no intention of streaming themselves.

There are 150+ million accounts on twitch, but only 10+ million people who streamed in the last months, and around 5 millions who seem to stream regular. Doesn't make the impression of being skewed by people who did not aim to stream. Sure, some might hit the button by accident. But more likely, it's just people who have a different aim than making viewers.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#177
I think while this may not apply to a small minority of streamers (certainly only a tiny minority of successful ones), it can useful to think of most streamers as a form of sex workers. While not engaging in strictly sexual activity for money, their job is to perform (non-sexual) intimacy in order to foster parasocial relationships because this is how they get paid. This is more obvious with those typically disparaged as "boobie streamers" but it equally applies to men or more "modestly" clad women.

And above all, sex work is emotional labor. While for literal prostitutes the bare minimum can be entirely mechanical, even then it requires a certain level of performative (emotional) intimacy. The more abstract the sex work is (dancing, cam shows, financial domination, etc) this aspect remains the same and it is exhausting work that can take a serious toll. In a way it's more mentally exhausting than other forms of work because it requires a constant denial of one's self in order to perform as an abstract fantasy desired by those who pay for it.

I'd even go so far as to say that all service work (especially in US-style "the customer is always right" jobs that penalize employees for "not smiling enough") is part of this spectrum and in many cases even non-service work involves performing this role towards the owner of the company or upper management (after all, every company wants to hire prospects who are "enthusiastic about the product" or "fanatic about delivering user experience" or other nonsense claims that signify loyalty and submission).

This is also why so many streamers fail: if you want to be a gaming streamer or a politics streamer or a beauty streamer or whatever, fine, but being good at the thing (gaming, politics, makeup) isn't enough. The core skill you must build is engaging, building and handling an audience. This skill is absolutely transferrable (unlike, say, being really good at Counter Strike, unless you want to switch tracks to professional gaming) but it's far less well-understood and much harder to judge as an amateur. Some streamers seemingly just "luck into" popularity but they still end up having to either learn or hire someone to do "community management" and "moderation" and even then their popularity hinges on their ability to perform the character that made them popular and failing to evolve OR maintain that character can mean sudden death.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree as well. The community didn't do what resulted in the raid. That was the streamer. Yeah you were there watching, but it's like saying "we won" when your favorite sports team wins.

> it's like saying "we won" when your favorite sports team wins. Which is commonly said, yes.

You might say we won the game. You would never say “we” got xx million viewers or any sort of commercial achievement.

Re: On Twitch, you can never log off

#180
post #81

I think a more interesting story would be about the people that grind for years and years and never make it. You're left without a useful skill and no money, and probably a deficit on your mental health because you didn't go out and talk to people in real life for years. I think its not at all worth getting into as a career because making it big is like starting out as an actor, you have to know people. If you hit it…

Is Twitch earnings their primary source of income? They arent making income as a media personality outside in addition to the subscriptions and/or connections that could help them after? I have a feeling the same warning could be given to actors going to LA trying to make it. A percentage become dish washers after washing out in a couple years but tons who don't find a reliable pay cheque via work in the thousands of…

The endgame of twitch-income is getting sponsors and cooperations. Subs and donations are limited by your viewer-numbers and how many whales you can play. But even a small company has pockets which can compete with any whale one has. And you can have multiple companies at your hand, feeding you, if you are good enough.
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