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Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

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Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#151

Post by lordnacho »

syzarian wrote: post #58
Hermitian909 wrote: post #30

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is… With the exception of a small percent of the population this isn’t true. Most people don’t have the ability, patience, wherewithal to self study a topic in depth. HN comments are littered with examples of educated people in one area making foolish comments in other areas with those people thinking they…

It's the same as you can get more fit by exercising and eating right on your own. All the material resources you need are there, but you need to add some personal behaviour to do it.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#152

Post by annyeonghada »

blinding-streak wrote: post #61

College is not just about getting an education. An equally important part of a traditional college education is finding out who you are as a human being. Living with others full time, perhaps for the first time. The growth I experienced in those 4 years of college was unlike anything else in my lifetime.

University is, for about everyone who isn't in it for branding, about educatoon and getting a job.

I don't need to live with others to know who I am: I can introspect in my room and maybe use the money saved in rent to pursue something that really makes me grow as a person, music for me. The only thing that I learbed living with others is that living alone is one of the greatest luxuries.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#153

Post by LarsDu88 »

pcurve wrote: post #141
LarsDu88 wrote: post #133

I went to an Ivy League university. Was studying for Biochem one year to meet a requirement. Class had ~500 people in it and no classes. You just go to study sections once a week, and take the tests. The study sections were all run by OTHER undergrads and the entire thing was run by an adjunct. I ask one of the TAs (same year as me) - "Why the fuck are we paying so much for this education. My high school teachers put…

Just curious, Cornell?

How the heck did you... you're an alumnus too?

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#154

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrr2 »

ido wrote: post #140
syzarian wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve taught mathematics for over 20 years in higher education and I strongly disagree with your view on the relative ease of learning math on one’s own. Let’s take a simple example. Here’s the distributive property for rings: a(b + c) = ab + ac It’s easy for me to convince someone that because of this property we get the following: 3(x + 2) = 3x + 6 It’s much harder to convince someone that 3x + 6 = 3(x + 2) It’s har…

I think that OP's fundamental error is talking about school vs university. When I started my bachelor's studies in math the professor covered 3 years of high-school math in the first 2-3 weeks of the first semester. Up to that point I too thought I could just learn by reading the textbook. University (assuming a good one, mine wasn't world famous but has a good reputation nationally & in Europe) level maths is comple…

If you're talking about me (GP not OP); when I said "school" I meant during my undergrad at a university. I'm claiming that I skipped 2-3 years of math at university by self studying, specifically 2 years of analysis, 1 year of topology, and some algebra.

You can absolutely do this for university math using textbooks if you're motivated enough. Which I was.

Sorry for the colloquialism. "School" means university in the U.S. tech industry, but apparently not in Europe.

Edit: Reply to child comment before I log off. Haha I agree. The really valuable things I learned from math professors had nothing to do with the curriculum though. It was more like stories about all the people they saw going crazy trying to get tenure, ultimately failing and then seeking revenge against those who denied them; how they all go to conferences sometimes and drink very heavily afterwards in the nearest bar; and just little colloquialisms. Math academia was a really interesting subculture of very interesting people.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#155

Post by MandieD »

hammock wrote: post #116
Hermitian909 wrote: post #30

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

>It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks That is not the point of a liberal higher education, though. Historically (for much longer than a century) people were tutored k-12 in their own homes, with their families and neighbors, and not in these government-run public schools. You could learn whatever you wanted from books at home, and a governess and ke…

"... and a governess and key instructors."

If your family was wealthy enough for you to be economically inactive as a youth, and to pay for said governess and instructors.

Higher education was for the rich, too. As you said, a different purpose, mostly social (definitely social for the wealthy young women).

All those little, often church-supported, colleges and land-grant state universities and teachers' colleges that sprang up all over the US in the late 19th and early 20th centuries? That was a revolution: higher education for the non-rich, and mostly for practical purposes.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#156

Post by ido »

rrrrrrrrrrrr2 wrote: post #154
ido wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that OP's fundamental error is talking about school vs university. When I started my bachelor's studies in math the professor covered 3 years of high-school math in the first 2-3 weeks of the first semester. Up to that point I too thought I could just learn by reading the textbook. University (assuming a good one, mine wasn't world famous but has a good reputation nationally & in Europe) level maths is comple…

If you're talking about me (GP not OP); when I said "school" I meant during my undergrad at a university. I'm claiming that I skipped 2-3 years of math at university by self studying, specifically 2 years of analysis, 1 year of topology, and some algebra. You can absolutely do this for university math using textbooks if you're motivated enough. Which I was. Sorry for the colloquialism. "School" means university in th…

No worries! I think for undergraduate studies I’m sure you can. Although motivation levels of “motivated enough” have to be pretty high!

My experience was that pretty quickly professors (and TAs) provided insight and guidance I couldn’t (or at least didn’t) get from just reading the textbook. But also that this increases the further you go in your education- in a 200 student auditorium class for linear algebra or calculus the professor isn’t going to be giving you any individual attention but in my school even by the 3rd-4th semester classes were already often small (15-20 students) and we had actual conversations with the professors about the material (and beyond).

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#157

Post by UncleMeat »

rrrrrrrrrrrr2 wrote: post #95
syzarian wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is… With the exception of a small percent of the population this isn’t true. Most people don’t have the ability, patience, wherewithal to self study a topic in depth. HN comments are littered with examples of educated people in one area making foolish comments in other areas with those people thinking they…

In social science and humanities, I agree with you that self studying is an uphill battle. You'll just sound naive unless (1) you've made a herculean effort in studying, and (2) you've thought very critically on your own about how you will assimilate and where you will fit into the existing space of thought. There are no definitively correct opinions in these fields but plenty of influential people have theories. My…

I feel that this comment misunderstands both hard sciences as well as social sciences and humanities. My wife is a historian. The idea that the way to succeed in history is to just make various influential people like you since there is no actual "correct opinion" is just rank bullshit.

And the idea that in, say, computer science, that there is precisely one correct approach to a given problem is also completely bogus once you've moved beyond trivial questions.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#159

Post by pcurve »

LarsDu88 wrote: post #153
pcurve wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, Cornell?

How the heck did you... you're an alumnus too?

Lucky guess ;-)

Based on the followings I noticed:

1. Some alumni are reluctant to reveal where they went to school, instead opting to say things like, "I went to school up state NY" or "one of the ivies". We used to talk about why this was the case and concluded that it's because though Cornellians are proud, they still have inferiority complex against people who went to Yale, Harvard, and Columbia. And Stanford if you're from California ;-)

2. Your story about large biochem course and how it's run. I had a roommate who was a biochem major (though in the 90s) and lamented how Cornell had these 'weed-out' courses deliberately designed to winnow out the smartest. ('Orgo' i.e. organic chemistry being on of them)

3. Use of lingos like "biochem" or "TAs". I'm sure other ivies use these, but when I heard these two works, I had a flashback to my undergrad days.

Btw, off topic, I recently visited and stayed at the Statler hotel, booked a room overlooking the Tower road and relived the old campus days. I'm not the one to regret much, but I spent too much time studying and didn't take advantage of the beautiful Ithaca while I was there. Better late than never ;-)

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#160

Post by MagnumOpus »

julianeon wrote: post #75
Hermitian909 wrote: post #30

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

> It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone has done this I challenge this. In fact I've wondered why people don't devise a test that capitalizes on this. Some edtech company should make a test - let's call it "the Genius test" - that's so hard it would challenge Terence Ta…

> I'm surprise it hasn't been tried.

It has? You are describing every centralised college admissions exam, from the Chinese NCEE ("gaokao") to the Indian JEE-A or the French concours for admission to the better universities...

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