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Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

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Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#41
From what I see technology has definitely disrupted higher education. Textbooks, worksheets, and report cards are being replaced by Khan Academy, MyLab, Canvas. Teachers are doing less teaching and delegating more tasks to these services: assigning online modules, quizzes, and resources to help students (and this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as some of these online modules are really good).

I predict that very soon we will have AI tutors like ChatGPT, and then entire courses will be automated in technology. We already have "100% tech" online schools with one teacher per 100+ students or no teachers at all; but with AI tutors, I expect these schools will become much more effective, much more popular, and ultimately much more prevalent. I don't believe that the traditional school system will be replaced or that any public schools will become online-only: in-person learning is still necessary for many students, as are factors like free lunch and mandatory socialization, and AI will never solve those issues. But I do believe that fully-online learning, which is already rapidly growing, will start to grow even more rapidly.

And this isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Frankly, many people's public education system sucks because of lack of resources, and I don't see any alternative way that it can improve, because of lack of resources. For the students, a good AI tutor can be much more helpful than a teacher (and much more patient). For the teachers, it may be harder to get a "traditional" general-elective teaching job, but maybe instead they can teach small focus groups in special classes, where the teaching is much more fun and interesting, but also harder to automate. The state of education in modern society is awful and this has serious consequences (see: recent elections); a low-cost, effective teaching solution would be a huge benefit to global society.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#42

Many parts of the elephant: no motivation to work on hard things without friends, professors, campus, well-paying jobs, and high-status contacts. Would be interesting to see MOOCs on daily stuff: cooking, gardening, cleaning & organizing, style, hospitality. Or MOOCs around hobbies: amateur radio, photography, sketching, watercolor, dance, music. Here there’s potential for the tech to meet users halfway.

You can absolutely find video tutorials on all the hobbies and daily stuff you list, and in most communities you can find groups that will teach you informally for free or in a slightly more structured way for a nominal fee. Where formal credentials exist, they tend to be based on observed skills (like a culinary arts degree or certification as a sommelier). I'm not sure the demand for MOOCs is there for most hobbies.

There are some exceptions for hobbies with a well delimited body of knowledge (eg birdwatching)

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#43

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

> Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors.

IMO, this is an extreme bias in the Ed VC community and explains how they managed to flush so much cash down the toilet. In no particular order:

1. Tech focus. Most SWEs do not need a CS or even SE degree, and even if you do need that knowledge it really can be learned by hacking at things alone in a room. This ranges between "a lot less true" and "hilariously out of touch" in a lot of other fields.

2. The startup founder set skews toward the "independent learner" type.

3. Within VC/founder world, it's often actually true that university was for networking and prestige. This is one of my huge "you are so close to understanding how unreasonably BS your world is" pet peeves. Not everyone graduates from Stanford. The majority of college graduates attended colleges and universities that you've never even heard of. There are several thousand of institutions of higher education in the US. How many can you name? Sometimes I really want to say to EdTech founders/VCs: "just because you are incompetent and survive on your fancy Stanford degree despite knowing nothing doesn't meant that's true of all College degrees." (But not you in particular, of course, and this is just my inner narrative frustration... I don't mean it to be an attack on anyone in particular.)

Most students really do need years of in-person learning that does not scale well.

Most institutions provide very little signalling value.

Most of higher ed is completely misunderstood by a set of Standford grads gambling with more money than most institutions have in their endowment.

And I'm highly suspicious of counter-narratives from anyone who hasn't taught Calc II at the branch campus of a state university system.

American institutions of higher education, particularly the non-elite private ones, have been capturing value from actually teaching people useful things for two centuries. It's hard, it won't make anyone a billionaire, and we should get back to the old model of doing things not-for-profit in an unscalable way and without federal debt subsidies. Where by "capturing value" we mean "updating aging buildings and paying faculty enough to live a normal middle class life", not "supporting a massive administrative apparatus" and certainly not "buying yachts for LPs".

edit: various typos. Typed while in a meeting (about this very topic, as it happens)

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#44
post #10

Has any country found a better way?

I think most other countries don’t think there’s a problem. Because their college educations don’t cost several years of annual income, compounded at interest rates double what a car loan used to go for.

Even in countries where college is free, students do typically give up several years worth of annual income in opportunity costs

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#45
post #29
post #4

We've already gone through an entire cycle of technology-driven higher education disruption... ever heard of an online degree? Many such online schools have made billions and lost it again by now. Separately, the accreditation scheme upholds a high barrier to entry for disruptors. Specifically, a school must be accredited (gatekept by the US Ed Dept) for matriculating students to be eligible for government financial…

Is the accreditation scheme really a high barrier to entry? Several new institutions of higher education have gained accreditation in recent years. There is some paperwork and hassle involved, but we've got to have quality control to prevent scammers from taking advantage of students and taxpayers. Accreditation doesn't prevent schools from adopting disruptive technologies.

> There is some paperwork and hassle involved

There is a LOT of paperwork and hassle involved. Also years of time.

It's enough of a hassle that some new institutions have found it worth their while to buy out a bankrupt school that already has accreditation rather than starting the process from scratch.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#46

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

Doesn't that depend on the field of study? There is a fairly straightforward path for a motivated student to self-study to the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree in mathematics. But how would that work in, let's say, history? I took a fair number of history courses as electives and if I had just read books and watched videos I think I would have come away with a really skewed and incomplete education. Class discussions with instructors and peers gave me a much better perspective on many topics.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#47

I've worked in the ed-tech space for years and am good friends with many of the early pioneers. Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. I'll address the knowledge signaling first. It has been possible for a century to self-study to the equivalent of a bachelor's degree using textbooks but it is very difficult to verify in a reasonable amount of time whether someone…

> Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. IMO, this is an extreme bias in the Ed VC community and explains how they managed to flush so much cash down the toilet. In no particular order: 1. Tech focus. Most SWEs do not need a CS or even SE degree, and even if you do need that knowledge it really can be learned by hacking at things alone in a room. This ranges betwe…

> Most institutions provide very little signalling value.

Signalling is the most important thing universities provide. The vast majority of jobs that require a degree don't require or care about what you learned. They just want someone who is able to get into university and pass with good enough grades. That's the entire value. Even community colleges provide large amounts of signalling value in that you dedicated a significant portion of your life to obtaining the degree, something many people legitimately are unable to do. Startup education has no signalling power because employers don't know about it and don't believe it is difficult to obtain the degree.

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#49
Universities have been around for thousands of years. Good universities offer a unique combination of factors - people of the same age group, professors and a distinct atmosphere that encourages learning. How are you going to teach science and engineering courses where you need access to labs? And, university is where you get a chance to meet people from diverse fields and backgrounds, get exposure to challenging points of view and build life long bonds. It's another thing to work remotely as an adult, where there are competing demands on your time, but I would never wish online learning on a young adult!

Re: Why hasn’t technology disrupted higher education already?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the capturable value in education is signal of acquired knowledge and other factors. IMO, this is an extreme bias in the Ed VC community and explains how they managed to flush so much cash down the toilet. In no particular order: 1. Tech focus. Most SWEs do not need a CS or even SE degree, and even if you do need that knowledge it really can be learned by hacking at things alone in a room. This ranges betwe…

> Most institutions provide very little signalling value. Signalling is the most important thing universities provide. The vast majority of jobs that require a degree don't require or care about what you learned. They just want someone who is able to get into university and pass with good enough grades. That's the entire value. Even community colleges provide large amounts of signalling value in that you dedicated a…

The key differences:

1. if you aren't Stanford, trust is hard to gain, easy to lose, and nearly impossible to gain back once lost. One bad placement raises alarms and more than one poisons the well for an entire degree program. There aren't many regional employers per degree program, and national/global employers are a "reach job" for most students. This is something that non-elite institutions know in a visceral and painful way. They are so careful with the few regionally well-regarded degree programs they manage to build. The folly of VC world was obvious to those faculty, and their students (such as me), from the start.

2. if you aren't Stanford, most of your students probably really do need a couple years (at least) of in-person instruction before they are ready for the labor force. Again, anyone who has taught at one of these institutions just knows! Once every 10 years you get the type who didn't really need the degree to learn the material, and you do your best to elevate them past the institution's typical bar for outcomes. But the other 9 years, 100% of students require a lot of real work before they are ready.

In other words, most institutions cannot afford to signal without that signal being extremely accurate. AND they don't have the type of students who don't really need the education. So they educate students and then signal the value of hose students not just through grades but also especially through things like referrals, letters, and so on. But, again, I wouldn't expect a Stanford or UIUC or Michigan grad to understand this world.

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