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Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

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Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#11
post #4

Wonder if this will make it into Synology DSM 7.2. Seems unlikely based on the timing.

Aren’t Kernel versions tied to device model for Synology? My DS918+ returns “4.4.180+” as its kernel version. That’s pretty.. old?

Do/can they downstream some of the changes without changing the Kernel version?

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#12
I've been managing a raid6 ext4 array with mdadm for 10 years. Started with 4 x 4TB disks and kept adding, up to 11 disks now. It works reliably and as designed. Had a few disk failures and replaced them without issues. That's one of the nice things about mdadm vs ZFS: you can add and remove disks from the array as you see fit, rather than being forced to upgrade all disks if you want to increase the size of your array.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#13
post #7
post #3

Oh yeah, i like reliable filesystems like xfs or zfs ;)

Btrfs let me down one time and for a file system one time is too many.

I've been let down by ZFS once before when I wanted to add more drives to an existing pool.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#14

Maybe I'm just cynical but I think the ship has sailed for BTRFS RAID 5/6. It's now part of the global mindshare that BTRFS RAID 5/6 == data loss, no one wants to be the guinea pig that proves it works. Better to direct resources towards bcachefs or ZFS IMO.

Ideally we'd be working based on actual information rather than global mindshare. There will be guinea pigs to test it. There are already quite a few people running it despite the warnings.

As much as I want to see a wide use of bcachefs, it's still years away. As someone who actually wants to store data - why would you direct resources to bcachefs which is known experimental, rather than btrfs which plainly documented raid5 as not ready and now may decide to change it to ready... if it is? (I'm donating to bcachefs patreon, but commenting from the PoV of someone choosing a solution today)

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#15
post #5

I wonder how this compares to just using mdadm block device level raid5 or raid6. And then a normal filesystem on top.

The flexibility of software RAID is nice that you can mix and match hard drive manufacturers and generally have zero issues. For hardware RAID, I've always been told to stick to one drive family from one manufacturer and not to mix and match.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#16

Maybe I'm just cynical but I think the ship has sailed for BTRFS RAID 5/6. It's now part of the global mindshare that BTRFS RAID 5/6 == data loss, no one wants to be the guinea pig that proves it works. Better to direct resources towards bcachefs or ZFS IMO.

Ideally we'd be working based on actual information rather than global mindshare. There will be guinea pigs to test it. There are already quite a few people running it despite the warnings. As much as I want to see a wide use of bcachefs, it's still years away. As someone who actually wants to store data - why would you direct resources to bcachefs which is known experimental, rather than btrfs which plainly document…

No post body was provided.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#17
post #9

Glad to see Btrfs getting continual updates. It's my favorite filesystem for my personal machines (work and home PCs). The feature set is just awesome. I just hope it doesn't get completely abandoned as its development seems to have slowed significantly. The only thing it's missing before I consider it full-featured is stable RAID 5/6. But it looks like that hasn't been forgotten.

> The only thing it's missing before I consider it full-featured is stable RAID 5/6. But it looks like that hasn't been forgotten.

I've been running BTRFS RAID6 since 2016 and have only had one issue (arch kernel needed to be rolled back) and never suffered anything catastrophic. It's perfectly happy humming along with a 15x8TB raid array.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#18
post #5

I wonder how this compares to just using mdadm block device level raid5 or raid6. And then a normal filesystem on top.

The flexibility of software RAID is nice that you can mix and match hard drive manufacturers and generally have zero issues. For hardware RAID, I've always been told to stick to one drive family from one manufacturer and not to mix and match.

mdadm is software raid; it's just at the block device layer, rather than part of the filesystem.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#19
But is the RAID handling remotely sane yet? See https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/examining-btrfs-linu...

It has gems such as:

* It won't boot on a degraded array by default, requiring manual action to mount it

* It won't complain if one of the disks is stale

* It won't resilver automatically if a disk is re-added to the array

I think the first is the killer. RAID is a High Availability measure. Your system is not Available if it fails to boot.

Re: Btrfs in Linux 6.2 brings performance improvements, better RAID 5/6 reliability

#20
post #5

I wonder how this compares to just using mdadm block device level raid5 or raid6. And then a normal filesystem on top.

The flexibility of software RAID is nice that you can mix and match hard drive manufacturers and generally have zero issues. For hardware RAID, I've always been told to stick to one drive family from one manufacturer and not to mix and match.

The biggest problem for hardware RAID is controller compatibility. If the controller dies, chances are the whole array is dead, if you couldn't find the exactly same model.
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