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Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

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Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#71

Post by sumtechguy »

michaelmior wrote: post #38
7steps2much wrote: post #9

(1) I wasn't aware of it, but I am not surprised that something like this was written into the standard (presumably. I doubt carriers rolled their own thing) (2) All the ways I can think off are significantly harder than rooting, so essentially no. (3) I don't really mind that much, I have Google services running on my phone and I am certain those can do far more than my carrier could ever dream off. I have begrudgin…

> written into the standard What standard are you referring to?

Parts of it are in the GSM, CDMA, CDMA2000, '3g', LTE, 4g/5g standards. They are thousands of pages long. They do quite a bit. Usually baked into the firmware from whoever makes the chipset.

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#73

Post by pfoof »

unilynx wrote: post #32
brainchild-adam wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part you mention I was aware of and am actually thankful for. This, at least to me, goes much further. Hence the shock. Updated my post w/more details so it makes more sense (hopefully).

I don't know if this happens in The Netherlands, but if they forced your phone to receive NL Alerts it would seem very reasonable to me. Only the government issues those. I've understood cell broadcasts are also used for advertisements/otherwise spammy stuff in eg. the US? Then I could understand you considering cell broadcast being turned on being unreasonable

> Only the government issues those.

Just wait when your neighbor repeats the packet at night, locally and undetected

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Emergency_Alerts#Se...

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#74

Post by bjt2n3904 »

isodev wrote: post #65
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because another country has a law does not mean my phone should disregard what I told it to do. This absolutely is a user setting. How far we've fallen from sharing the DeCSS flag, to arguing that users shouldn't have control over their devices, and governments and carriers should.

The local (EU) law about emergency broadcast is clear in that it applies to both residents and visitors, and alerts are to be delivered without the need for “opt-in”. In other words, if you’re in range of local services, you must receive the alerts (which, you know, is handy in case of an actual emergency).

Gotcha. I'll just draft a law saying all devices must automatically unencrypt themselves when they enter my country's borders.

Hey, it's the law! You must comply, and for your convenience, your phone will do that automatically for you!

Good grief.

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#75

Post by izacus »

happyopossum wrote: post #48
izacus wrote: post #17

Yes, Cell Broadcasts are controllable by carriers and that's even mandated in some countries (e.g in USA the carrier can send out a broadcast that will ignore all "silent phone" settings and scream loudly no matter what you've set and where). This will happen on all phones allowed to be used in those regions - whether Apple, Google, Samsung, Nokia or even Huawei. You can attempt to disable it, but you need to be awar…

> e.g in USA the carrier can send out a broadcast that will ignore all "silent phone" settings and scream loudly no matter what you've set and where My iOS settings and experience differ from this rather greatly - can you cite any such laws or regulations? I have clear settings on my up to date ios device in the US, on a large American carrier that allow me to a)ignore emergency alerts, b) get them but silently if my…

There are types of broadcasts even in US (IIRC Presidental broadcasts, but don't quote me on that) that will ignore your settings.

See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202743 - note the little "3" note where it says that some broadcasts in some regions can't be disabled?

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#76

Post by tristor »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #56
msingh_5 wrote: post #23

These are emergency broadcast alerts. Different countries have different laws on these - and in some countries you might not even be able to disable them. Just because its listed under "Apps & notifications"/"Wireless emergency alerts", it doesn't mean they are "user settings". Its not necessarily the local "carrier" that turned the settings on, its more that connecting to a cell tower in a particular jurisdiction ca…

Just because another country has a law does not mean my phone should disregard what I told it to do. This absolutely is a user setting. How far we've fallen from sharing the DeCSS flag, to arguing that users shouldn't have control over their devices, and governments and carriers should.

People keep failing to understand that if you can't make your device do something that is illegal, it's not /your/ device. It's that simple. Politically crafted laws are not physical laws of the universe, they not only can be violated, they often /should/ be violated. Laws are not a moral imperative. This particular law (emergency alerts) might not be an issue, but the fact that your device will follow the government's mandate over the user's choice is all we really need to know about that device.

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#77

Post by willyt »

I can totally understand why Americans would want to silence these. I'm from the UK and I was in Central Park with my wife and kids when we got an 'Amber Alert' which said something like 'Black Ford SUV reg XYZ123' or something equally cryptic. It was not long after the terrorist attack in Nice where a guy drove a truck thorough a crowd of people walking beside the beach. Everyone's phones started going at the same time and we assumed it was some kind of disaster warning (the second worst level of disaster after a Red Alert?) as did many other tourists in the park! It went off again on the subway on the way back to the apartment and all the New Yorkers were totally unfazed by it. I asked the woman next to me what it was, she just said ignore it. I googled it later and it turned out an ex boyfriend had not showed up from picking their daughter up from school in a small town at the other end of New York state a couple of hundred miles away. Talk about crying wolf, I hope they have a different sound for when there actually is an inbound rogue North Korean nuke, otherwise 20 million people are going to think 'fuck's sake' and silence their phones without looking...

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#78

Post by warkdarrior »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #74
isodev wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local (EU) law about emergency broadcast is clear in that it applies to both residents and visitors, and alerts are to be delivered without the need for “opt-in”. In other words, if you’re in range of local services, you must receive the alerts (which, you know, is handy in case of an actual emergency).

Gotcha. I'll just draft a law saying all devices must automatically unencrypt themselves when they enter my country's borders. Hey, it's the law! You must comply, and for your convenience, your phone will do that automatically for you! Good grief.

If you do not like the regulation, fight to change it. Do not expect your devices to do the fighting for you.

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#79

Post by izacus »

1337biz wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each phone takes time to be detected, identified, and tampered with. So it may make sense to activate a new burner phone, talk about something sensitive, and destroy it right afterwards, before the law enforcement understands what phone was that.

Call me paranoid but I would assume that intelligence services keep a special eye on newly activated non-smartphones.

Ability to detect and correlate these switches has been documented in Snowden leaks years ago.

Re: Tell HN: Your Android carrier can remotely turn settings on

#80

Post by TreeRingCounter »

isodev wrote: post #65
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because another country has a law does not mean my phone should disregard what I told it to do. This absolutely is a user setting. How far we've fallen from sharing the DeCSS flag, to arguing that users shouldn't have control over their devices, and governments and carriers should.

The local (EU) law about emergency broadcast is clear in that it applies to both residents and visitors, and alerts are to be delivered without the need for “opt-in”. In other words, if you’re in range of local services, you must receive the alerts (which, you know, is handy in case of an actual emergency).

My device should serve me, not the EU. If I choose to violate EU emergency alert laws, that's on me.
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