Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

881–890 of 915 posts

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#881

Post by xxs »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #804
ls15 wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other websites like Github decided to comply in a way that does not require cookie banners. I think that the users appreciate it.

There are a lot of other clauses than just the cookie banners. In fact, the cookie banners are far from the most annoying part if you want to be compliant. I would go so far as to say that most startups which don't do 100% of their compute within European borders are likely non-compliant with GDPR by the law as written. Edit: To be clear, I would have no problem with the level of trade protectionism if it only applie…

>I would go so far as to say that most startups which don't do 100% of their compute within European borders are likely non-compliant with GDPR by the law as written.

What personal data do the startups require that's hard to rein?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#882

Post by xxs »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #843
nix23 wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You need to launder it to make it white. Yes i buy drugs and sell them...i don't think the mafia has anything against that money, they will then just give it to the Vatican bank to wash it. If you really don't understand that this i just a excuse....

Vatican City is not in the EU. I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here. This legislation will make it harder for people to simply launder money. Yes, you are right that it won't stop people from complicatedly laundering money but that's not the point of the legislation.

The "Vatican" bank would still need to comply with all the AML laws to take the cash. Carrying the cash (as notes) to Vatican alone would still be an issue. Indeed, a proper straw man argument.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#883

Post by from »

mcv wrote: post #849
from wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that millions of currency transaction reports and form 8300s are filed in the US every year and that a vanishingly small fraction of those lead to any law enforcement followup? The vast majority of economic activity including cash based economic activity is legitimate. If you want to balance the interests of law enforcement or whatever then just make it required that the transactions are reported but ju…

I don't see how any of that is relevant. They're not targeting the majority of economic activity, nor even the majority of cash transactions. They're only targeting cash transactions so unusually large that it's hard to imagine a legitimate purpose for them. Small cash transactions are unaffected.

> They're only targeting cash transactions so unusually large that it's hard to imagine a legitimate purpose for them.

I am saying that millions of cash transactions of this size take place every year and that the majority of them are legitimate. Whether or not you can think of reasons why people would use cash in that amount is sort of irrelevant.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#884

Post by twohaibei »

stev-0 wrote: post #860
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

I don’t see how limiting cash payments is “penalizing” anyone. I have never payed more than say $3k in cash. It just doesn’t make sense to do so. Privacy shouldn’t exist for financial transactions. It makes it easier to launder money or hide wealth. There is no other use for “dark” financial transactions. There is no tyranny in making finances of everyone transparent. It doesn’t force anyone to make different choices…

> I have never payed more than say $3k in cash. It just doesn’t make sense to do so.

Let me quote someone smart on privacy topic:

> Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

Cash = privacy. I dont want to get stripped from privacy by anyone for any reason.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#885

Post by peoplefromibiza »

ahtihn wrote: post #862
B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in cash? for more than 10k? if someone has 10k cash they will not buy a used car, they will buy a new car, pay it in the next 5 years 200 euros a month and then sell it to a used car reseller. No sane minded person would sell their more than 10k worth car in cash to an unknown party who shows up with a bag full of 50 euros bills. BTW this position comes from people who regularly see cash as a form of freedom from opp…

There's no better way than cash for large transactions between private persons. All the apps have limits of a few thousand and bank transfers take a business day (in Switzerland). No one wants to transfer 5 figures to a random person and wait a day before taking possession of the car. Sellers don't want to give the car before the money is in their account. So cash it is. Used cars go for way more than 10k. I bought m…

> There's no better way than cash for large transactions between private persons

For small amounts? maybe.

Assuming you like bringing money with you and your time is free and you like to pay two times: the first time when you pay in cash, the second time when you have to waste time to get the money from an ATM.

There are much better ways to solve these issues and I use cash only with people I already know, other than to pay drinks and cigarettes.

For large amounts?

Absolutely not.

Unless the transaction is between two people with something to hide, of course.

Ironically, this is why Europe wanted to put a limit on cash transactions [1]

They probably know their chickens

[1] https://newsrebeat.com/world-news/124305.html

> Used cars go for way more than 10k

So what?

There's absolutely no obligation to pay in one transaction.

Even with raising interest rates, it's still more convenient to lend the money from the bank and pay monthly, instead of giving away 10k that could be invested in something much more profitable than a used car.

You can easily repay the loan in 5 years with > I bought my current car for 35k used.

That's a very expensive car and this [2] is 35k euros cash.

Not exactly "the best way" to pay. Honestly someone who pays a car with 35k cash, can only look like this in my mind [3]

This how I actually do it [4], paying monthly rates, very cheap interests, thanks, but no thanks.

[2] https://storage.ecodibergamo.it/media/photologue/2018/4/5/ph...

[3] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-J_rU5T5QbA/maxresdefault.jpg

[4] https://sg.lendela.com/assets/img/blog-you-can-t-pay-credit-...

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#886

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrr2 »

b112 wrote: post #844
B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, the right to use large amounts of cash is a fictional right.

The way you are defining it is fictional, and not the right being abridged. By forcing the use of 3rd parties, to be able to trade, for people to sell goods they craft and create, there is an abridgement of multiple rights. This will be overturned.

Gosh I hope it will be overturned. My impression as an outsider is that banning large cash transactions is yet another step down a slippery slope of increasing authoritarianism in Europe. I hate to make this style of argument, but: after anonymous transactions, what will be next, restricting anonymous discussions online?

The Cold War days seem so nostalgic; it seems there was a shared camaraderie between Europeans and Americans as "Westerners", all on the same team, etc. Now as an American I feel increasingly like Europe and the U.S. are drifting apart, and policies like these are additional wedges driving the split.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#887

Post by x-complexity »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #358
AHappyCamper wrote: post #225

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

You don’t need CBDC, just the existing system today. Here in the UK something like 3% of money is available as paper cash. The rest is just a row in a database. Assets are zero sum - if i sell you my car, i no longer have that asset. Money is not zero sum. It is created and destroyed as loans are made and repaid. Which kinda frazzles people’s minds when they hear it. I know it certainly did mine when i first learned.…

> You don’t need CBDC, just the existing system today. Here in the UK something like 3% of money is available as paper cash. The rest is just a row in a database.

The point the GP is trying to make is that they want to further restrict the usage of cash in economic transactions, & that CBDCs further help in that regard. There's a difference between:

"3% of money is available as paper cash"

and

"Paper cash is banned under all circumstances"

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#888

Post by franciscop »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #874
franciscop wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For better or worse, usually it’s a licence or contract that exists to artificially limit your ability to copy. I can assure you I didn't have to issue manual licenses or make manual copies for the millions of downloads that my open source software had this year. When someone downloaded it, no one found it missing from their project. > once it’s sold you’ll need to paint a new one Hence is not zero-sum, I can keep…

>> I can assure you I didn't have to issue You did - if it was open source, you issued a copyleft licence that uses the system of copyright to disclaim your rights. It’s a licence. Maybe you didn’t specify a licence, depending on your jurisdiction then perhaps the work is classed public domain automatically or more likely you’ve created a situation where technically your users are breaching your copyright. >> I can k…

> You did - if it was open source, you issued a copyleft licence that uses the system of copyright to disclaim your rights. It’s a licence.

I mean I didn't manually make each license, it's COPIED without nothing being removed from me. I can copy it once or a million times, nothing is removed and value is added, hence non-zero sum.

> You’ll no longer have the paint or the canvas, you’ll have a painting. Zero sum.

No, it's not the same, a painting has more value than the paint and canvas; hence not-zero sum. It's ridiculous to claim zero sum, that'd imply we cannot advance as a species and would still be dealing with pebbles.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#889

Post by hakfoo »

stev-0 wrote: post #860
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

I don’t see how limiting cash payments is “penalizing” anyone. I have never payed more than say $3k in cash. It just doesn’t make sense to do so. Privacy shouldn’t exist for financial transactions. It makes it easier to launder money or hide wealth. There is no other use for “dark” financial transactions. There is no tyranny in making finances of everyone transparent. It doesn’t force anyone to make different choices…

One real-world scenario is the numismatics and bullion world.

Especially on bullion items, there's very narrow margins, and I'd expect a high transaction-reversal risk (i. e. demanding refunds or charging back if the price of gold dropped after purchase).

In practice, this means that many dealers will charge a higher price for using non-cash payment systems. At least in the US, some dealers will even be explicitly cash-only.

Six one-ounce gold coins would get you over USD/EUR 10,000, and isn't that exotic of a purchase in that context.

A documented payment system might be viable for that scenario, if it was completely zero-cost to merchants and consumers, although some dealers might still not want the reversal risks. However, conjuring that would require major state intervention.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#890

Post by CogitoCogito »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #165
mytailorisrich wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax levels are high and tax are being collected. Governments aren't short of money because of tax evasion. Tax evasion is not a top priority however you look at it... the argument sounds like "but think of the children" to justify things that are actually motivated by other aims and/or ideological reasons.

My country loses about €32 billions in yearly income due to tax evasion. That's the amount of money that could change many lives if used right. Instead we're cutting benefits to the poor bto reduce our deficit. Tax evasion is a top priority.

Another solution is to just increase taxes until you end up with €32 billion in increased revenue. An advantage is also that this solution is actually _possible_ (as opposed to getting rid of all tax evasion).
Post reply on HN