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Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

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Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#321

Post by swayvil »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #138
taneq wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your summary here more or less applies to the entire debate, and many other similar debates. When did we forget that personal preference an entirely sufficient reason to make a personal choice? I don't use dark mode because a meta-analysis of opthalmological studies indicates it may improve eye health, I use it because I like it and my eyes feel more comfortable using it.

> When did we forget that personal preference an entirely sufficient reason to make a personal choice? I don't think anyone is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to smoke cigarettes, you have the license to do so. But that doesn't mean there aren't objective reasons no to do so. Generally speaking, preferences aren't beyond scrutiny or axiomatic, or outside rational consideration. If a preference is meaningfu…

The independent thinker is an irrational addict.

And the healthy intelligent person invariably conforms to the consensus.

Is that how it is?

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#322

Post by dontlaugh »

steve1977 wrote: post #211
dontlaugh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have astigmatism and experience the opposite. Not sure why. Is it because I always wear glasses?

I also wear glasses all the time, even computer glasses. I’m nearsighted, maybe that’s a differentiator? Although I‘m not sure if astigmatism always comes with nearsightednesd or not.

I have slight hyperopia, but it's dwarfed by the much more significant astigmatism.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#323

Post by gyulai »

pentaphobe wrote: post #305

Nothing screams tech bro like "I used to be one of those techbros who did " Source: I got "very pure" on the tech bro purity test

I'd like to agree, and elaborate.

The use of the "tech bro" stereotype in the article really rubs me the wrong way. It's a complete rhetorical low blow.

It's identifying the opposite of the author's opinion with a group, and then portraying that group in a way so that the reader would rather distance themselves from that group than identify with that group. This triggers in-group/out-group psychology along the lines of: "My enemy's enemy must be my friend", or "My opinion should probably be the opposite of the opinion held by people I don't like." ...an obvious logical fallacy.

In the compound "tech bro" it's actually the word "bro" that does the heavylifting to make the group unsympathetic. The rhetoric wouldn't work with "techies", but would work equally well with "frat bro". Outside of the U.S., "bro" is not even a readily recognizable cultural stereotype at all. For example people in the tech sector in Europe who are in their 50s and who like how dark mode reminds them of IBM terminals that existed back when they were young might have a preference for dark mode, but they surely don't fit the stereotype of a "tech bro". Young people into gaming aesthetics might like it too, but they aren't always tech bros.

Preferences for light mode / dark mode are pretty much subjective personal preferences or maybe to some extent culturally ingrained, but in a way that has little or nothing to do with being a "bro". It's like saying: "So you like to have a lot of black on your screen? Do you know who else liked black? Mussolini! So, do you still want all that black on your screen now, like a fascist pig? Or do you do what I tell you to do now, and set your screen mode to light?"

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#324

Post by KaiserPro »

alpos wrote: post #311
KaiserPro wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, darkmode, and the bluelight fear is not really based on that much science. Yes, UV and top end blue does cause cataracts in people, but thats from the sun, not monitors. There are at least two strands to darkmode, one is the "It stops me from sleeping" and the other is eye strain. the sleeping part is almost certainly nothing to do with the colour temperature of the light coming out of your device. If you go ou…

Now re-read the post you're actually replying to and notice that I didn't say anything like what you appear to be responding to. I've never been worried about blue light. I sleep fine. And stayed away from social media because it seemed unhealthy to me from the start, so I've never been hooked on twitter/instagram/tiktok. I actually feel for the people who are obsessed with it, especially the number of journalists wh…

> What has been properly studied in this area is pretty thin as most areas of scientific inquiry go.

Dry eye based eye strain & tension headaches have good literature to back them up. Its not unknown.

> Aside from that, you're being pretty aggressive about giving out unasked advice

its not advice.

> none the less enjoy dark mode

There is nothing wrong with darkmode, it just has no real medical effect. I have dark mode, and sometimes when I feel like it, high contrast.

You are confusing Ockham's razor with a personal attack.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#325

Post by ntp85 »

IncRnd wrote: post #224
brabel wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here.

> OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here. And, you didn't see that here. That you would even think that shows that you didn't read what was written. It is ridiculous to wait for what others say about whether dark or light mode strains one's eyes more, since each person already has a pair of eyes to test what works for them.

Which, to be honest, is just a more contrived way of saying "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise". It is only anecdotal evidence in any case.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#326

Post by Perizors »

KaiserPro wrote: post #270
alpos wrote: post #72

This post seems to boil down to, "I read a summary of one study, so I am confident in telling you all how wrong you are". Thanks but I'll let the scientific process play itself out over time. In the mean time, I appreciate that the public debate has induced phones, apps, and many web sites to give me the option to enjoy reading things all day without eye strain. The fact that more stuff defaults dark mode or follows…

Look, darkmode, and the bluelight fear is not really based on that much science. Yes, UV and top end blue does cause cataracts in people, but thats from the sun, not monitors. There are at least two strands to darkmode, one is the "It stops me from sleeping" and the other is eye strain. the sleeping part is almost certainly nothing to do with the colour temperature of the light coming out of your device. If you go ou…

Blue wavelength does have an effect on sleep. The photoreceptors linked to the suppression of melatonin are most sensitive to blue light. And melatonin is associated with the sleep-cycle regulation.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#327

Post by mcv »

gsoto wrote: post #318
mcv wrote: post #237

I think the issue is a lot more subtle than simply "dark mode = better" vs "light mode = better". When it's dark around me, I don't want a bright white screen blinding me, so I prefer dark mode. But when I'm in a well-light room with a white wall behind my screen, I don't want to have to peer at a dark rectangle. Also, whether you're using dark or light mode, contrast and brightness need to be set right, and I think…

I think the issue is that people are adjusting what they see on screen instead of adjusting their environment (i.e. room lighting), even when they are totally able to do it. A dark mode could make it bearable to work in poor light conditions but won't improve on the fact that it's already a non-optimal environment.

I wish my son would just turn the lights on in his room when he's gaming. He's just sitting there in the dark.

Mind you, I do the same when watching TV. Some shows and movies these days are so dark you simply have to turn off the lights and close the curtains to see what's going on.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#328

Post by wpietri »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #206
wpietri wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please tell us more about your bulbs? Like you, I found a huge improvement in mood if I use light cues to help convince my body that I live in an eternal late spring. So far I've used Hue bulbs, as I love their color temperature range and the ease of programming. (For me it helps that a plausible day-night cycle just happens in my house.) But I've wondered if daylight-like lumens would be even better. And H…

My whole house is full of warm Hue bulbs. The handful of Hue lights that are color temperature-adjustable are all set to warm because blue-tinted lights drive me nuts. That said, I use Wirecutter's budget SAD lamp pick set to the bluest setting and maximum brightness for about 20 minutes per day to help me cope with this particularly gloomy Seattle season, and it definitely seems to help. So you may not need to rewir…

Oh, interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience.

YMMV, but something I discovered is that light colors bother me when they're out of sync with my day-night rhythms. So mine start very warm in color, very gradually shift to pretty cool color temperatures as we approach noon, and then get warmer again into the evening.

My theory is that this gets me what the SAD lights are simulating without any manual effort, and it seems to be working. It also helps me with maintaining a regular sleep schedule in that it turns out I'm not a responsible light-switch user; it's easy for me to leave lights on and be active so late that I then have trouble getting up on time.

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#329

Post by gsich »

heavyset_go wrote: post #40
gsich wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No correction glasses/contact lenses?

In my experience, these aren't perfect and symptoms of astigmatism can be aggravated by eye strain, dryness, allergies, poor lighting, etc even with correction.

So how you know that this is related to (and only to?) astigmatism?

Re: Is Dark Mode Good for Your Eyes? (2020)

#330

Post by wpietri »

wincy wrote: post #170
wpietri wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please tell us more about your bulbs? Like you, I found a huge improvement in mood if I use light cues to help convince my body that I live in an eternal late spring. So far I've used Hue bulbs, as I love their color temperature range and the ease of programming. (For me it helps that a plausible day-night cycle just happens in my house.) But I've wondered if daylight-like lumens would be even better. And H…

I use Hue Bulbs in the rest of my house and they slowly dim in the evening, although you’re absolutely right that it’d cost thousands to buy enough hue bulbs. You’re better off buying dumb bulbs for daytime then equipping the rest of the house with Hue for a few hundred. I just went to Home Depot and bought the 8-packs of 100W (13W) equivalent, 5000K, 1600 lumen non dimmable LED bulbs from Feit Electric. Screwed thos…

Oh wow, I had no idea light socket splitters existed. That solves a big problem for me! Thanks for all the detail here!

As for day-night cycling, I basically achieve the same thing through lighting, and I'm very happy with that. As my lights get warmer and dimmer in the evening, I very naturally start winding down. To get that with Hue's own automations requires me putting in something like 8 steps, though, so I'll soon be going back to my own software. Especially because I use my lights to change my time zone before trips to the east coast, so I'm not jet lagged when I arrive.

For video calls in particular I have an Elgato Key Light clamped to my desk at maximum extension and facing almost straight down. It gets me good brightness and controllable color temperature as well as pretty even lighting, which makes my calls look pretty good.

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