Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery • Hacker News Board

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#131

Post by unmole » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:09 AM UTC

shapefrog wrote: post #103

Zanfa wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet on Binance just delaying the inevitable collapse, rather than trying to fix the underlying issues. Judging from the FTX balance sheet, they gambled all of their money on shitcoins and random projects without any sense of logic. No amount of fixing would have helped, other than an magical perpetual bull market. Odds are Binance is also fundamentally screwed.

IF they never gambled their depositors money, then they are/will be fine. Running an exchange, taking a cut of all transactions on your platform is effectively impossible to collapse (excluding your actual costs of doing business).

They can even do proprietary trading using the market information they have!

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#132

Post by LatteLazy » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

isitmadeofglass wrote: post #100

LatteLazy wrote: post #99

Binance was partly responsible (rightly or not) for triggering FTXs collapse. Edit: Triggered, not caused. He controlled the timing. Doing so without having their own house in order would be suicidal. I'm not saying they are safe. Just that CZ is either much happier he can deal with a "bank run" or crazy. Does anyone know why it is so difficult for companies to provide audits? It seems like it SHOULD be very doable f…

The only way for them not to trigger the FTX crash’s at the point they did, would have been to absorb 8 billion $ worth of missing funds and handing over control of a much larger set of funds to the people responsible for those losses. They weren’t partly responsible for FTXs crash for looking at that balance sheet and going wtf, we’re out. Even if they themselves are running the same scam. They might just be much le…

I am not sure I follow your logic. CZ and Coindesk triggered (not caused, but triggered) the collapse by announcing they thought there was an issue. CZ could have avoided that without giving FTX any money by just not doing it: quietly selling Binances FTT. I do't blame CZ for the problems at FTX. I am just saying, if you trigger a (justified) bank run in a competitor, you have to expect people to withdrawn from your own org too. So triggering it and NOT being solvent yourself is inviting disaster...

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#133

Post by mccorrinall » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

nayuki wrote: post #72

Kukumber wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase will not survive, they already lost credibility due to their insider trading issue [1,2] Coinbase also originates from wallstreet, hence why Binance is way more popular (Binance has 10x more daily volume!!! [3]), despite Coinbase having more PR presence This FUD is another evidence that someone wants to take down Binance, they dodged the poison/trap with FTX, looks like they'll have to dodge another one real…

Binance owns CoinMarketCap since Apr 2020. I wonder how reliable the numbers are.

Since the numbers are bad (BTC having smaller market cap than Tesla) I believe them.

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#134

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:13 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #16

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Agreed upon procedures is a standard non audit report done with a particular target use case in mind. They can be very valuable or complete garbage. It depends on its design and purpose. The disclosures you quote are standard and would form part of any agreed upon procedures engagement. There is no nefariousness at play. However, the better questions are: 1- Does this report result in meaningful assurance and if…

If I squint, I can understand the value of a non-audit-audit in some circumstances. But I don't understand the value of it in this circumstance, except for the value in obscuring one's finances behind a "serious" auditor's letterhead. Put another way: the context is anxious investors. Is this intended to assuage them, or is it intended to dupe them?

Not necessarily. It might simply be because they wanted to publish something now and not in a couple of months.

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#135

Post by vgatherps » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:20 AM UTC

typon wrote: post #76

ramraj07 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just makes one wonder why the binance guy even stirred the pot initially with FTX, like 3 possibilities exist: 1. He assumed the blowout would be minimal outside of FTX and/or assumed FTX was shady but not as bad as it turned out 2. He acknowledged the possibility that binance will also get scrutiny but realized FTX was just so bad that letting it fester further will only get him arrested faster too. 3. He’s just ano…

As for 3), we really need to avoid the narrative that these people are idiots or stupid. They are sharks - intentionally malevolent people who have defrauded millions of people. SBF's current defense is that he was too naive and unaware of what was happening at FTX. Obviously its a lie - but we shouldn't help these people spread it.

I think his defense is sort of:

1. We had a busted accounting system

2. Early on in FTX people had to route dollars via Alameda because banking is hard

3. We accidentally credited those dollars both to Ftx and Alameda

4. Each side thought they had billions to spend / lose (their VC and related spend was WILD), and suddenly, oops!!!!!!

I suspect there's a grain of truth to this, in that steps 1-4 did actually happen to some degree and influenced expenditures/risk taking that the firm couldn't back. Given what's known (for some definition), the upper crew knew about the problem well before the bank run, and knowingly transferred funds from FTX to Alameda. This sort of 'best case' scenario still implies an absurd commingling of exchange and user funds.

It doesn't strike me as plausible that nobody ever questioned the extra billions , and it definitely isn't believable that when Alameda got margin called, they just casually 'sent' some of the double counted billions without taking some time to think "hey, so about these billions".

Also, this doesn't square with Sam constantly claiming that he misjudged whether FTT was good backing - if they didn't commingle/steal customer funds, he wouldn't have cared about FTT collateral!

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#136

Post by davidkuennen » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

obert wrote: post #122

Binance is a scam. They make it extremely hard to withdraw money, with errors, fake limits, unresponsive customer support.

Interesting, did this change recently? I remember cashing out almost 6 figures EUR around the peak last year without any problem. Since then I stayed away from the crypto market.

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#137

Post by rkagerer » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

coopierez wrote: post #112

rkagerer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

almost universally hated by the whole population Can you source that? It feels to me like a gross exaggeration. Anecdotally I know more people that are passionate about it or just don't care than anyone who really hates it.

8% of (American) people have a positive view, 43% have a negative view. The rest don't care or are neutral. So although not a majority, it's pretty close. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/07/just-8percent-of-americans-h...

Thanks for sharing that poll.

25% --> 45% since March. I'd be interested in seeing how those numbers fit into the context of longer term sentiment (eg. over the course of several years). I wonder how much it fluctuates year to year and what degree the emotion reflected in those surveys is influenced by prices at any given time (eg. inclination to be more upbeat when prices are going up).

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#138

Post by logicchains » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

Kukumber wrote: post #57

drexlspivey wrote: post #17

Only Coinbase will survive at the end. It's the only one of the big exchanges that doesn't do any form of debt/lending/margin etc just straight up offering trading for a fee.

Coinbase will not survive, they already lost credibility due to their insider trading issue [1,2] Coinbase also originates from wallstreet, hence why Binance is way more popular (Binance has 10x more daily volume!!! [3]), despite Coinbase having more PR presence This FUD is another evidence that someone wants to take down Binance, they dodged the poison/trap with FTX, looks like they'll have to dodge another one real…

>Coinbase also originates from wallstreet, hence why Binance is way more popular (Binance has 10x more daily volume!!! [3]), despite Coinbase having more PR presence

Binance is more popular because Coinbase's fees are almost an order of magnitude higher..

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#139

Post by bartvk » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:27 AM UTC

bushbaba wrote: post #3

Binance is even more shady than FTX. They are most likely not solvent. Personally, I'd move all my funds off binance to off-exchange wallets for the time being.

> They are most likely not solvent

On what basis do you make this statement?

Re: Binance is trying to calm investors, but its finances remain a mystery

#140

Post by anyfactor » Mon, Dec 12, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

dottrap wrote: post #71

This YouTuber (Sasha Yanshin) did a scrutiny of the errors or omissions made with the different wallet checks in the report. This is the most detailed tear down I've been able to find so far on the Internet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42VnEndJ9mo

Even though I would like to casually watch a video on Binance but I am going to pass on that channel.

That channel is defined by red backgrounds, down arrows and fire. I firmly believe that one should be open to every opinion as long as they have a built a good framework aka BS detector. I feel like this video is not going to be a casual watch for me and I am definitely not invested in Binance that much to fact check everything presented on that video.