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Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

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Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#31

Post by smj2118 »

dpcan wrote: post #30
laironald wrote: post #27

I learned to program on my TI-82 calculator because I couldn't pay attention in my Engrish class. Learning to program allowed me to actually understand the math I was studying and put it into a practical framework. Especially since I was replicating a lot of games that I couldn't afford. It was great.. I was learning and becoming more popular by distributing these games to my classmates. I played your app with a kid…

I totally agree. Programming is a hard thing to "teach" when so many of us "learn" it in order to accomplish something. As the saying goes, some things are taught, and others are learned. I don't have an iPad, so I couldn't try this app, but these are just my thoughts on kids' applications in general, not the app itself: I agree that in a learning-based program, a mission of some kind would be helpful, but too often,…

Thanks for the insight. The reason the dinosaur is a bit cutesy is that we wanted to appeal to both genders. A dinosaur devouring jedi might get boys interested but would probably turn off girls. Unfortunately it seems difficult to appeal to both girls and boys at that age.

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#32

Post by smj2118 »

laironald wrote: post #27

I learned to program on my TI-82 calculator because I couldn't pay attention in my Engrish class. Learning to program allowed me to actually understand the math I was studying and put it into a practical framework. Especially since I was replicating a lot of games that I couldn't afford. It was great.. I was learning and becoming more popular by distributing these games to my classmates. I played your app with a kid…

Thanks, I do agree that it needs more goals to be built in, especially if we want it to become stickier and more addictive. The incredible machine sounds cool, I will chcek it out. Our idea with the first product was to see how far people could get with just the plain platform before building in more complex mechanics.

From our user testing I think 7 is probably a little young for the app. 9-11 seems to be more of the sweet spot where they want to play games but can go off on their own without much structure.

Thanks for the feedback!

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#33

Post by sc00ter »

jocastette wrote: post #23
sc00ter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes?" They do, or at least Apple does with the inclusion of a version of Ruby as standard in OSX, various shell scripting options, and Xcode available for free from the Mac App Store (although I would question how easy that is for a novice to get started with). Windows? Not so much.

Those sound like good things but as you suggest this doesn't meet the standard of beginner friendliness. This would be something like clicking on an application called 'Ruby' in the applications folder and then a window popping up ready to start typing my script in. (If there are choices to be made, fine, just make it work with some default options and I can switch text editor or whatever later.) The same set-up on e…

You have that right now. Every computer with a web browser has a JavaScript interpreter installed; but at some point some knowledge of programming, or a desire to learn it is required. The web browser is a gateway to that knowledge and learning, so, other than opening a text editor and getting stuck in, it's all there, ready and waiting.

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#34

Post by ChronosWS »

smj2118 wrote: post #15
jocastette wrote: post #10

Getting a programming environment is indeed a barrier which I have experienced a number of times. This contrasts with schooldays when I could start writing a basic program simply by switching the computer on. Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes? (So one could begin learning with 5 mouse clicks or less.) Sorry if this is a hopelessly naive question

I think programmers themselves have a bias against getting started easily. Everyone knows how much they had to struggle to get their environment set up so they expect it to be a hard problem and don't consider it necessary to solve when building an OS. I imagine it's simply not a priority although I wish it was.

I dunno, I started on a Commodore 64. When you turn the computer on, you are in the BASIC interpreter. It didn't get any simpler than that.

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#35

Post by tangentially »

jocastette wrote: post #10

Getting a programming environment is indeed a barrier which I have experienced a number of times. This contrasts with schooldays when I could start writing a basic program simply by switching the computer on. Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes? (So one could begin learning with 5 mouse clicks or less.) Sorry if this is a hopelessly naive question

Because there is better? Nokia's had python forever on their phones, and now QML (declarative + javascript).

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#36

Post by LeBleu »

jocastette wrote: post #23
sc00ter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes?" They do, or at least Apple does with the inclusion of a version of Ruby as standard in OSX, various shell scripting options, and Xcode available for free from the Mac App Store (although I would question how easy that is for a novice to get started with). Windows? Not so much.

Those sound like good things but as you suggest this doesn't meet the standard of beginner friendliness. This would be something like clicking on an application called 'Ruby' in the applications folder and then a window popping up ready to start typing my script in. (If there are choices to be made, fine, just make it work with some default options and I can switch text editor or whatever later.) The same set-up on e…

The reason that is not available is that the universe of options for beginning programming has exploded since the old boot into BASIC days, and there is no longer agreement on the easiest way to begin programming.

As for the same set-up on every single Mac/PC, it's already there, it is just slightly harder to get to than you want. It's called a web browser, and there are numerous URLs you can go to that let you program right in the browser.

W3schools is probably the easiest to find, and lets you try HTML and JavaScript right in the webpage. http://www.w3schools.com/html/ and http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

The online version of "Eloquent JavaScript: A Modern Introduction to Programming" by Marijn Haverbeke has an integrated JavaScript console at the bottom to follow along. http://eloquentjavascript.net/chapter1.html

If anything, the problem is that there are too many answers, targeted at too many starting levels, so it is hard to Google for any likely phrases and get to the answer easily.Searching for "begin programming" seems to give better beginner answers, whereas "learn to program" tends to give more college-level answers.

I see no reason why a kid who is interested in how to do it, and grew up in the modern era around web browsers and search engines and such, would have any trouble finding something quickly.

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#37

Post by BdR76 »

jocastette wrote: post #10

Getting a programming environment is indeed a barrier which I have experienced a number of times. This contrasts with schooldays when I could start writing a basic program simply by switching the computer on. Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes? (So one could begin learning with 5 mouse clicks or less.) Sorry if this is a hopelessly naive question

As recently as 2011, Microsoft launched Small BASIC, although that might be more aimed at kids. But anyway it's entry level, that's for sure.

http://smallbasic.com

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#38

Post by isonno »

jocastette wrote: post #10

Getting a programming environment is indeed a barrier which I have experienced a number of times. This contrasts with schooldays when I could start writing a basic program simply by switching the computer on. Why don't Apple, Microsoft etc. package the stuff you need to get start programming with their OSes? (So one could begin learning with 5 mouse clicks or less.) Sorry if this is a hopelessly naive question

I think JavaScript/Browser may eventually fill this void. Maybe.

Re: Show HN: An iPad app to teach kids how to program

#39

Post by missrobot »

dpcan wrote: post #30
laironald wrote: post #27

I learned to program on my TI-82 calculator because I couldn't pay attention in my Engrish class. Learning to program allowed me to actually understand the math I was studying and put it into a practical framework. Especially since I was replicating a lot of games that I couldn't afford. It was great.. I was learning and becoming more popular by distributing these games to my classmates. I played your app with a kid…

I totally agree. Programming is a hard thing to "teach" when so many of us "learn" it in order to accomplish something. As the saying goes, some things are taught, and others are learned. I don't have an iPad, so I couldn't try this app, but these are just my thoughts on kids' applications in general, not the app itself: I agree that in a learning-based program, a mission of some kind would be helpful, but too often,…

Agreed that having a mission or goal is important.

What comes to mind for me is a game called the Island of Dr. Brain that I played as a kid.

There was a section in the game where you would input a bunch of directional commands to send a robot through a maze. Then you would "run" the program and see if the robot made it to the end.

Of course, this didn't teach me how to program, but it did teach me how to think in an input/output sense--input these instructions and this thing happens--in a way that I hadn't previously learned in school, and the idea of finishing the maze helped the game hold my attention. Game mechanics...well, they work.

FWIW I'm female and I was never put off by the fact that neither Dr. Brain, nor the legos I had, etc., were geared towards girls.

That said, what you have seems like a really good start and I'm very much looking forward to experimenting with the app.

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